NFL

[myelo]

Originally posted by Fruda
Let's not forget pressure situations! Manning can't do a damn thing under pressure. He gets happy feet whenever there's a blitz, and a sack is usually a given. Was it that way with Marino? No.

Let’s take the iron crowbar of reality to this statement.

Marino’s ’84 season: 13 sacks. That’s one sack for every 43 attempts, one sack for every 28 completions, and one sack for every 3.7 touchdowns.

So far Manning has been sacked 6 times. That’s one sack for every 59 attempts, one sack for every 40 completions, and one sack for every 7 touchdown.

Next?

[DREDIOCK]

Curious.

How many come from behind wins does Manning have?

I dont mean the down by 3 or 4 in the final 2 minutes in an already close game. But the type that  Elway, Montana, and Marino were famous for, down by 2,3,4 scores and comming back in the final quarter.

Those games so long as there was enough time on the clock you KNEW these guys had a real chance of pulling out the win.

Another thing Manning doesnt have going in his favor is the type of defences he has to face.
Someone mentioned about playcalling and alot of these older guys didnt call their own plays.
True.
But also the game rules are such now that they are so geared to let the offence score that Im not too sure Manning would have the type of success he has had if he had to go against defences like that of the Bears in their Super Bowl team. Or the Steel Curtin, Or the Purple People Eaters.

the Defences were just so much more dominant back then.
How many truely GREAT Defences do you see these days?

My point is, Take these QBs of old and they would do VERY well in todays game. Probably better then  Manning or Farve or any of a half dozen others
But Take todays QBs and Im not so sure they would be nearly as effective back then.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by myelo
Let’s take the iron crowbar of reality to this statement.

Marino’s ’84 season: 13 sacks. That’s one sack for every 43 attempts, one sack for every 28 completions, and one sack for every 3.7 touchdowns.

So far Manning has been sacked 6 times. That’s one sack for every 59 attempts, one sack for every 40 completions, and one sack for every 7 touchdown.

Next?

OR, this crowbar of reality

totaling 7 years.

this being Mannings 7th year (but this year isnt over yet)

Manning sacked 132 times (6 this year so far)

Marino sacked 83 times (after 7 full years)

Mannings 6 (so far) this year matches Marinos best of 6 in 1988

Marino has had 6 years where he got sacked 10 or less times on the entire year over his entire carreer.

Mannings total to date is 1 (this year)

On the other End manning has been sacked 20 or more times 4 years of the 7 years he's been playing.

By comparison Marino has had only 5 in 16 years.

Sacks arent always a good comparison though as much has to do with the offencive line. (THE single most important positions in the game)

Without the O line nothing happens. A Great O line makes even a mediocre QB like say..Phil Sims look great. and a Crappy line will make a superstar look like an amature

[RTStuka]

Originally posted by rpm
Steve Young was very good. Unfortunately, he had to wait behind Montana for a good chunk of his career.

Steve, I don't have a mancrush on Favre like you and Cheeseheads, Inc. He's OK, but no Top 5 or 10. He falls somewhere between Jim Plunkett and Kenny Stabler on the all time list.

You must be on some sort of drugs, of course he is easily in the top ten, look at the numbers.

1 Super Bowl (plus another apperance)

3 MVPs

11 Seasons with 3,000 or more yards passing that places him 3rd on the list all time.

Tied for 3rd all time with most touchdowns in a season as well as most consecutive seasons leading the league in touchdowns.

Ranked 3rd with most touchdowns in a career.

Currently 4th (Soon to be 5th) all time in TDs in one season (39)

He has 14 games with 4 or more TDs in a game that puts him at 3rd on the list.

He also ranks 3rd with 5 games with 4 tds or more in a single season.

He is also ranked like 3rd or 4th I think (not 100% sure) on the list of all time for consecutive games with a touchdown pass thrown.

Now lets not forget he is about to start his 200th start of his career, he is a true player and loves the game. If you can make an argumetn against that on why he doesnt deserve easy top ten listings then good job. Not to mention that anyone one in the sports fields who have much more knowledge than you on this subject always have him in the top 10, usually top 5.

[narsus]

Great QB's no particular order

Young
Montana
Moon
Marino
Elway
Bradshaw
Aikman
Starbach
Unitas
Farve
Manning

And I am sure I am missing a few

[Creamo]

Something like that, yes.

[parker00]

Good Game between San Diego and Kansas City Chiefs. I didn't want to watch New England Balitmore, to lop sided.

This game would of been a lot better had the Chiefs won.



68Parker

[RTStuka]

Its looking like the best call the Chargers this year made was getting rid of Manning. Think about it, if he had accepted being part of the chargers and not cried like a little ***** and if daddy hadnt be there to help him from going to them he probably would have started. I do believe he will be a good QB but he needs time so the chargers would have had another toilet year. Instead he goes to the Giants where it looks like they may miss the playoffs meanwhile the chargers are on fire, good call by their front office.

[rpm]

Favre's competition is lax in comparison. Green Bay has had no major compeditor in their division other than Minnesota. It's hardly the NFC East of past years with 3 or 4 legit title contenders in the division. It's like Bowl rankings, if you play lesser teams you get less credit. Don't get me wrong, he's a good QB with a strong arm.

[StarOfAfrica2]

What, not even an honorable mention for Kurt Warner?  What about Vinnie Testaverde?  No Trent Green?   May not be quite Brett Favre, but come on.  And how about Dante Culpepper?

Now I admit Warner turned out to be a bit fragile.  Of course if he'd had an offensive line that could stop a stampeding boy scout troop maybe he would have lasted long enough to truly fulfill his potential.  He could have been another Favre.  Now he's just a second-string vet waiting to retire.  

I still stand behind Vinnie as one of the best, although even I admit he's getting a little slow in his old age.  The Jets were just plain stupid to let him go.  

I was joking about Trent Green.  

Dante is one hell of a good QB.  He may not have the numbers and records yet, but he will.  If he stays healthy.  

My #1 pick is Favre.  He's a leader.  He inspires the men that play for him, and he has made some of the most incredible come-from-behind wins I've ever seen.  Even with only seconds left on the clock, you count him out at your peril.

[Pongo]

"How many come from behind wins does Manning have?

I dont mean the down by 3 or 4 in the final 2 minutes in an already close game. But the type that Elway, Montana, and Marino were famous for, down by 2,3,4 scores and comming back in the final quarter.
"

for your consideration.
4 minutes.

"Going into the fourth quarter, Tampa led 28-7. The Colts' Ricky Williams scored a touchdown early in the quarter but then, when a pass by Manning was intercepted by Ronde Barber and returned for a touchdown, the Colts looked doomed. With four minutes left in the game, the score was 35-14. No team in NFL history had ever won a game after being behind by 21 points with four minutes left.

Beginning an amazing series of events, Brad Pyatt returned a kickoff 90 yards, setting up a touchdown run by James Mungro. Idrees Bashir came down with the onside kick and, six plays later, Manning threw a touchdown pass to Harrison. After the Colts defense held the Bucs, Manning threw a 52-yard strike to Harrison, setting up a 1-yard touchdown run by Williams. The game was tied at 35 with 26 second left. In overtime, the Bucs stalled and the Colts took over, marching the ball down the field to give Mike Vanderjagt a chance to win the game with a 40-yard field goal. He missed. But the referees, who had been assessing penalties all night, called Tampa's Simeon Rice for "leaping", giving Vanderjagt another chance. His kick was deflected, hit the right upright and banked through. The victory gave the Colts their first 5-0 start since 1977 and left the Buccaneers, whose league-best defense had allowed 35 second-half points to be scored, stunned.

"

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Pongo
"How many come from behind wins does Manning have?

I dont mean the down by 3 or 4 in the final 2 minutes in an already close game. But the type that Elway, Montana, and Marino were famous for, down by 2,3,4 scores and comming back in the final quarter.
"

for your consideration.
4 minutes.

"Going into the fourth quarter, Tampa led 28-7. The Colts' Ricky Williams scored a touchdown early in the quarter but then, when a pass by Manning was intercepted by Ronde Barber and returned for a touchdown, the Colts looked doomed. With four minutes left in the game, the score was 35-14. No team in NFL history had ever won a game after being behind by 21 points with four minutes left.

Beginning an amazing series of events, Brad Pyatt returned a kickoff 90 yards, setting up a touchdown run by James Mungro. Idrees Bashir came down with the onside kick and, six plays later, Manning threw a touchdown pass to Harrison. After the Colts defense held the Bucs, Manning threw a 52-yard strike to Harrison, setting up a 1-yard touchdown run by Williams. The game was tied at 35 with 26 second left. In overtime, the Bucs stalled and the Colts took over, marching the ball down the field to give Mike Vanderjagt a chance to win the game with a 40-yard field goal. He missed. But the referees, who had been assessing penalties all night, called Tampa's Simeon Rice for "leaping", giving Vanderjagt another chance. His kick was deflected, hit the right upright and banked through. The victory gave the Colts their first 5-0 start since 1977 and left the Buccaneers, whose league-best defense had allowed 35 second-half points to be scored, stunned.

"

Nice comeback, That is "a" game. But I asked "how many" not if.
Not because Im trying to knock Manning but because I dont know.

 There are many marks to a "great" QB One of those things is in being able to consistantly rally your team from behind, Elway was known for it. And possibly the best at it,
Also Marino, Montana and a few others.

Alot of QBs have had incredible single games including one Rookie for the Cowboys (I forget his name) who never ended up being anything more then a backup.

Like I said Im not knocking Manning.
Its still too soon to be making claims of "Best ever"

Look at Warner. For a few years he was a great QB.
Would anyone still make that claim of him now?
I kno0w I wouldnt. I'd say he is a very good QB, but I wouldnt call him great

For me you wait untill a players carreer is either over or close to it before anyone can make any honest comparisons

And so much has changed in the game in favor of offence Making claims of greatest ever on any current QB or receiver and to a lesser degree RB is a really tough call.
They almost play two entirely different games

[rpm]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Alot of QBs have had incredible single games including one Rookie for the Cowboys (I forget his name) who never ended up being anything more then a backup.

Clint Longley or Gary Hogeboom. Both were one hit wonders.

[killnu]

"Great QB's no particular order

Young
Montana
Moon
Marino
Elway
Bradshaw
Aikman
Starbach
Unitas
Farve
Manning

And I am sure I am missing a few"

Dan Fouts could be added to this list.  imo anyways.

[rpm]

Dan Fouts, Archie Manning, Dan Pastorini all great QB's that were hamstrung by bad teams. Gotta throw George Blanda in the list somewhere. The man was a machine.