Low alt bombers.

[Flayed1]

Tonight I was defending a base with a tiger and numerous B17's, 24's and Lancs were dive.. no more like straif bombing me so low I could make out the detail on the planes and got numerous proxy kills for them blowing them selves up with thier own bombs.
   The new calibration method may have had an impact on the amount of high alt bombers in the game but it has not solved  the problem of the low lvl straif bombing dweebs that infest the game.
   Even the Dolittle raid had bomb sights for thier low lvl run.
  I wouldn't have such a problem with this if they had been JU88's or 87's as they were meant to dive bomb although the tactics used here weren't even dive bombing.

  At least they could have used the KI67's so they could have said they were kamikaze pilots. And yes KI67's were used as Kamikaze aircraft.
    I will look around on the web for instances of 17's 24's and Lancs bombing at this low of an alt  but I havent seen anything historical related to bombing at 100ft and below. And I would guess that if it did happen it was rare.

[Kweassa]

One thing for certain - the new bomb drop method (which is as easy as hell now - provided constant alt, speed, and heading) hasn't changed a thing.

 I've been recording the low-alt bombers whenever I meet them - and a few days ago I actually caught a film of a B-26 in a vertical 70 degrees dive.

 Basically, my position is that the difficulty of bombing has nothing to do with deck buffs and dive-bomb buffs. It's been always like this.

 So, I still contend that;

1) "armed" bombs be released only in F6 bombardier's position. Bombs released in cockpit or any other position will be "unamred"

2) disable externals while in F6 bombardier's position(make it an arena option and disable it in the MA)

 This will stop the divebombing buffs altogether. It's not gonna stop deck-run buffs, but it's gonna make it a bit more difficult.

[RTO]

As with the unrealistic aspect of dive bombing with buffs or low level bombing straif runs @400ft or less also is the aspect of letting out paratroopers and cargo in excess of realistic airspeeds and attitude to horizon.  Those that HAVE jumped from a "REAL" plane while it is moving in flight know there is a maximum and minimum drop speed/aircraft attitude to safely exit the aircraft.  When those factors are exceeded it is devastating to the jumper and or cargo.  There is an altitude limit for letting out troops in the game which is at the acceptable combat jump altitude.  It would be nice to see the other aspects of (proper speed/attitude) incorporated into the game.  


RLTW

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Flayed1
 I wouldn't have such a problem with this if they had been JU88's or 87's as they were meant to dive bomb although the tactics used here weren't even dive bombing.

  At least they could have used the KI67's so they could have said they were kamikaze pilots. And yes KI67's were used as Kamikaze aircraft.
    I will look around on the web for instances of 17's 24's and Lancs bombing at this low of an alt  but I havent seen anything historical related to bombing at 100ft and below. And I would guess that if it did happen it was rare.

I am assuming this is not about dive bombing but low level carpet bombing, right?  It seems that it is more the type of plane that you are questioning and not the action?  

Also, historic or not, this is not WWII.  You were in a Tiger shooting at Panzers, while a P38 was attacking a P51 that was chasing a friendly 109, and mabe you had support on the grownd by an osti and . . . . .  Nothing in this game is historical except maybe some of the skins.  Its a game.  There is nothing in RL or History that stops a buff from opening the doors and droping at any alt.  Dweeby maybe, but so are the guys that come in hit troops and die or vulch and run or spawn camp or what ever you don't do or like.

[xHaMmeRx]

I was working on updating my bombing pages today and was looking at an AH1 airfield layout. Noticed the hangars were spread apart from one another, making it impossible to kill more than one at a time on a single suicide dive drop. Looking at how the hangars are now clustered, it popped into my head that spreading them back out would neutralize the dive-bombing buff problem.  It might not prevent it from happening, but they could no longer take all the fighter hangars out in one suicide dive.

Don't know anything about the terrains or terrain objects, but if this is easy to do, I'd say it would be a step in the right direction.

[Heretic]

Don't know how many times since AH2 has been out that I have seen all of the FH and BH out from one formation of buffs.   I never saw that in AH1.    Today I tried to get in a N1k to try to shoot down some incoming buffs but all of the  FH hangars were down from the first pass from a 3 cell group of Lancs.    Seems kinda cheesy that one pass would take out all of the FH's. This would not happen in RL.  Hangars aren't close enough together to allow for it.

[lasersailor184]

I think I remember someone once said that the bombs couldn't clear the racks of a B17 in a dive more than 15 degrees or something.

[Cobra412]

SEGunner actually many hangars are that close.  They were like that in WWII also.  The major difference in airfields from WWII as compared to ours is the reventments and hardstands.  This is something we don't have.  They had HASs, reventments, hardstands and maintenance hangars.    

Even the flow through hangars we use in todays Air Force are close together.  Our forward deployed bases are a bit different though. Depending on the airfield we can have all of our jets in a row under flow throughs or in HASs which are spread out much like the reventments or hardstands were in WWII.  Again though it depends on the airfields build.  You could have all your birds lined up in a row on an open ramp or in a line of reventments.

I'd prefer to see reventments or hardstands in AH2.  None of this magically appear on the runway stuff.  You'd pick a reventment to launch from and be off on your way.  This is realistic though and alot of folks don't want realistic.  This would also help out on the whole friendly collision thing.  Again though friendly collision will never be implemented so no need for this type of setup.  You'd basically have to wait in line for the reventments to launch if they were being used at that time.  Or it could have a setup option to select any unused reventment automatically and just spawn you at any reventment.

I've got a book that shows WWII style base setups for the 8th Air Force in England.  It's got about 50 bases or so and shows how the whole airfield was setup.  It includes all the buildings, taxi ways, runways, reventments, and maintenance hangars.  The book even tells you what the runways were made of, how long they were and who built them.  Might have to post some pics of it someday.

[Westy]

" I will look around on the web for instances ...."


IMO...

Don't waste your time. There are NO instances in WWII of combat that resemble the MA tactics of these dorks.  Try as they may to fit what they do into the kimkaze, dam busters, skip bombing practices in WWII it doesn't wash.

The suicide porkers and low level (or even hi level) dive bombing heavy buffs crap is a stain on the game. It's a major gamplay issue that many are tired of and some were tired of it long ago, like me, and await some significant game change that helps eliminate it.

[Pongo]

It all happend in ww2.
lancs on the deck in daylight, bombers on the deck at enemy airfields, heavy bombers ordered to strafe tanks.
All of it.

not kidding.

[Zanth]

AH field layout is more of a cause for such activity, and for two reasons:

(1) Repetitious field layouts and uniform compass orientation.
(2) Fields, particularly hangars, are organized in an easy to bomb manner.

If fields had a more random layout, low attacks would be very ineffective.  Since more passes would be required for the "wow look what I did" effect, higher alt runs would thus be encouraged as you would need survive to make more than one pass.

[Westy]

"All of it.  not kidding."

 I disagree. These MA players aren't role playing WWII Pilots and the historicaly dangerous missions they undertook.

 These players are dorks who are doing this crap and for them the ends justify the means. The "anything to win the war" mental attitude. They launch with the specific intent of porking and augering. They fully intend to respawn emmediately to pork & die. Only to re-up again .... rinse & repeat ad infinitum..

What is occuring in the MA is not the same as your references because all of the the RL consequences are missing and IMO (and I'm not alone with that opinion by a long shot) that makes this crap being done in the MA simply unhistorical, gamey garbage.

[TequilaChaser]

you would think someone would come up with a "Wall Of Shame" and post any snapshots or films and the gameid of these people doing this type crap. This way once word got out enough, people would try to refrain from being on the list of "The Wall Of Gamey Shame"

if one did get his name on this wall, he would have to fly for a whole tour and have his peers give him a vote of confidence to have his name removed......

think of the humiliation the AH community could put on these individuals?

either they would stop it, they would quit AH because their skin was too thin, or they would buck the system and continue to be Gamey goobs!

[warmcocoroos]

if you are afraid of low level bombers, i can not help you, one flack could take out 20 consecutive bombers at 1000-1500ft., wich is where you seem to place them in my mind.  or even a fighhter, say hurr could take 3 bombers (1pilot, 2 drones) in a snap.  So if your beiing chased by bombers, up a cannon tanker, common people.


BuuuuuuUUUUUUUUURN AWAYS!!!

[Cooley]

^ what Kweassa said, two simple solutions.

Though I think the Ju-88 and TBM should be exempt