Brother-in-law was laid off today

[Airhead]

ROC, what happened was BB73 lamented on CheckSix.Net his inability to find female companionship. Being the good comrades we are we offered him all kinds of advice, but the problem is that none of us at CheckSix.Net are any luckier in love than BB73 is, so... our advice was really bad, and BB73 got pissed off. He left in a huff with what has to be the greatest I Quit post EVAR, and since then he likes to take potshots at us.

Appropiate he'd take one here, in a thread about vindictiveness.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Sparks
This isn't about lazy schmucks - it's about us losing jobs to foriegn countries...

Since 2001, the airline industry has lost $15 billion in revenue. Industry revenue stands at $91 billion per year. Competition for revenue is fiercer than ever. Low-cost carriers like Southwest Airlines, JetBlue Airways and AirTran rule. They make up 30% of the market, up from 9% in 1991.

Southwest does its maintenance in Dallas, Pheonix, Houston, Baltimore, Chicago, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Oakland, and Tampa Bay.  As I recall, these are all cities in the USA and they must follow domestic employment practice.  SW employs a domestic labor force for all other jobs as well, and still operates more profitably than the old line carriers.

AA, Delta, United and US Airways aren't losing because they don't outsource jobs, they are losing because jet fuel costs more and Southwest has a better business model so it can still profit from smaller margins.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by JB73
FYI you schmoes's in your pretty pink place called "check six" (ignore the obvious studmuffin reference to anal penertration)  this thread is why i don't go there any more.

not a single respectable person, not a single person NOT waiting to be an prettythanghole.

have fun on your high and mighty throne of intardnet greatness, and make fun of other's tragedy, or sorrow.


 tis the ONLY way you will ever truly be great, and maybe beat that dragon.

LMAO!

Thats why im there dude! to post stuff and laugh at myself!

To bad YOU take YOURSELF to serious!. Maybe you will grow up someday and understand.

And as Airhead said, we offered advice, you apparantly took it as a personal attack or something, but that shows what kind of person you are.

And i find it sad,  i really like your style mostly. But you meltdown alot.

[ROC]

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I just gave him a no interest loan. I spent my money to make sure he had his house in order as it's getting cold and his wife is pregnant. I made sure he got his drivers license back, got his tickets taken care of and his insurance re-activated
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So you have him nicely indebted to you so he is good and 'loyal'


**No, he is not indebted.  He is helped.  I could have done nothing.  I didn't screw up his insurance and licence, I did reward him for putting out effort.  You are the kind of person that will complain regardless.  Think about this, he could not get a loan, his credit is shot.  Guess I could have just said, fix it our leave.  You are quickly changing my mind, you might be right, I probably made a mistake.  Better to just let them go to the "guv" and get help.  Not my problem.  I think tomorrow I'll recind the loan and stipulate that he has 24 hours to fix his license or he is fired.  I can't use a non licensed driver, My insurance will be too high.

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2 Dollar an hour raise I just gave him after I promoted him to a Lead Installer position.
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So you "gave" him a raise when he is actually taking on more responsibility - my you are generous.

**I gave him the opportunity to take on more responsibility, that he actually did not think he could do, and I showed him he could.  Yep, bad me for promoting a positive view. Shame on my sorry ass.  You are gonna be my new pet project.  I didn't have to promote him, I chose to.  Did I forget to get the proper permission from someone like...oh I don't know, you perhaps?  Should I have filled out a form and had an oversight committee make sure I promoted him properly?

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Now, this is a reward as he is one hell of a good worker, and $17.00 per hour is a good base wage for under 2 years experience, and I will continue to reward him unless he screws up royally and thinks that he is owed one damn thing from me, then it's out on his bellybutton faster than he can fart tequila fumes.
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$17 an hour in Cali - wow he can live like a king. "reward him" ?? he isn't a dog - the deal is he works and you pay. Last comment makes it clear you view his ethnicity as equal to white US born  

***Live like a King?  He's not a king, he was an unskilled worker when he came to me making minimum wage.  I trained him, I promoted him, I spent 3 hours before he showed up and 4 hours after he left making Damned sure he had a job to come to the next day.  He is making MORE than any union shop around including benefits for his category.  Bite me, and do better.  Most weeks these boys make more than I do, and I have no problem with that.  Unfortunately, there are far too many people in the world who think that for some reason, they have an opinion of how someone else should treat someone else.


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his base wage jumps to $26.00 per hour and benefits,
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So at $17 an hour there's no benefits - like health ?? nice.

***Again, you are clueless.  Yes, he has health, but at prevailing wage he get's more benefits.  Mind you, it cost's me Much more to sign and manage a prevailing wage project than a standard wage project.  The Staff does not make more handling the 6x increase in paperwork, I do not make a Dime more, and the only ones who benefit are the laborors.  It's a bonus and a reward for effort.


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get's overtime at that rate for driving because I want 8 hours of work. I "could" pay one way, as that is what the law allows, but I don't, I pay both, it's the right thing to do. Don't confuse that with the Moral right thing to do, it's not morality, it is simply the fact that if I spend a few bucks now, I don't spend Many bucks training new dweebs.
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So he is using his time to travel to do your work and you feel rightious about paying his travel time - your generosity abounds. Once again the dweebs comment proves your view of your workers.

***No, the dweebs comment proves my point about Dweebs.  I fire them, they are worthless to me.  I didn't screw their momma, I don't owe them squat.  
Do you get paid to drive to your job?
(answer this one please)
I pay my guys to drive to and from.  I don't have to, I chose to.  They are responsible to get to the jobsite, I am not responsible to get them their, I chose to perk them.  Frankly, you are proving to me that regardless of what I do, it's a waste of time, some of you morons will never be satisfied, so I might be wasting my time afterall.  I think I just found a way to shave about 10% off my budgets, THANKS!!!  I'll make sure they find you here


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Now, ya, that's modern management. ............. This isn't a social program, it's stfu and do your job. I reward effort, and I think I reward it well.
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As you say - it's modern management.

That's why I contract work - I come across management like that and can say "screw you" and find another contract.

This isn't about lazy schmucks - it's about us losing jobs to foriegn countries where the workers doing our job are working in conditions we considered years ago to be unacceptable - things like safety and healthcare - you know - trivia.

Hangar I'm at now doesn't have steps with rails on to get on the aircraft - ever fallen from an Airbus door carrying a toolbox - it hurts. Got to work on an wing - no harness - no problem.

***Hanger your at now doesn't have steps with rails?   Geez man, call the CIA it's a conspiracy, but watch your step when you walk down the stairs, or you might fall off.  For crying out loud man LMAO mankind has progressed for thousands of years being hunted in the wilds by tigers and bears and crap, walked the forests buck nekkid while fending off predators, floated hundreds of miles across oceans powered by wind, survived wars and attrocities unimaginable, engineered and built structures beyond compare but Look Out, Good God the worlds going to end, You don't have a stair rail.   LMFAO!!!  Ever fallen off an airbus with a toolbox?  No, I can't say I have, nor would ever admit it if I did!!  How the F*** do you fall out of a plane?  Good Grief man, you don't look and it's some corporate *******s fault??  Oh I love people like you.

WTF does that have to do with anything?   When I was about 18 (41 now) I was unloading flat bed trucks, and some moron drove the forklift onto the load and knocked me off.  I had 2 choices, go to congress and enact a law to prevent idiots from driving forklifts, then add rails to the flat beds, and have a harness on the pallets so they wouldn't move.   The other choice was to get up and beat the crap out of the IDIOT that can't drive a lift.  

Which one did I chose?  

My industry is being bombarded by cheap chinese knockoffs.  So what?  WTF do I care?  I can compete against them.  I do better work, and I put out a better product.  If I have a customer that wants price price price then I walk, I don't need them.  I don't want a customer that only wants price.  I need customers that want long term dependabilty, that understand quality over quantity.  

I also grew sales from 2.5 to 5 mil in 2 years.  Not bad for the strongest competition coming from overseas.  Grow some balls and get off the whine wagon, it's a waste of energy and effort.  You fell into a trap, you got sold a bill of goods that it's someone elses fault.

***I don't have any control over what other countries do.  I do have control over what I do, what I buy, who I chose to do business with.  Don't blame me cause you are bitter, and I'd be careful making assumptions about people when so far your opinions are based on something you pulled out of your left ear and not even remotely close to reality.


Dude lmao, you are Way off base

I like your world, it's cute.

__________________
"get in touch with your inner bastard"

[Sparks]

Do I get paid to go to and from site - if the site isn't my fixed base yes - all of it.

I'm not the sort who will complain regardless - in fact the US company I work for now is very good.  No arguements about anything and a bit of give and take.

Don't tell me you helped the guy out of the goodness of your heart - it was cheaper easier and less risk than getting a new guy training him and finding he is worthless.  The great philanthropist tag doesn't wash here.

Again you didn't promote the guy out of charity - you knew he could do the job and wanted him to take on more responsibity so you promoted him. In return for doing more you pay him more - kind of simple really. Really don't know where the permission and committee stuff is coming from ???

So you work longer hours than your employees - big deal it's your business and your choice.  You make it sound like you do these hours just to make sure they have a job - that's bull**** - you do it to expand the business so it's bigger when you come to sell it.

I wish I had a dollar for every time I've heard the "they make more money than me" crap. So when you sell a $5 mil turnover business you won't make anything LOL.

You're right - as long as you pay the wages and benefits as per contract you don't owe them squat but likewise as long as they do the work agreed in the contract of employment they don't owe you squat.  You seem to get off on the fact that by complying with the terms of a contract you entered into freely with an employee and by complying with employment law you are some great benefactor.  Employee / employer relationship is a business agreement like any other.

***Hanger your at now doesn't have steps with rails? Geez man, call the CIA it's a conspiracy, but watch your step when you walk down the stairs, or you might fall off. For crying out loud man LMAO mankind has progressed for thousands of years being hunted in the wilds by tigers and bears and crap, walked the forests buck nekkid while fending off predators, floated hundreds of miles across oceans powered by wind, survived wars and attrocities unimaginable, engineered and built structures beyond compare but Look Out, Good God the worlds going to end, You don't have a stair rail. LMFAO!!! Ever fallen off an airbus with a toolbox? No, I can't say I have, nor would ever admit it if I did!! How the F*** do you fall out of a plane? Good Grief man, you don't look and it's some corporate *******s fault?? Oh I love people like you.

Ahh now we get the often used "natural selection" arguement about safety. Many years ago it was agreed that workers can expect reasonable safety standards at the work place - you can take whatever chances you want if it is your neck and business but I don't see why I should risk my neck for your business because you don't want to spend the money to make it safer - not risk free just reasonably safe.

WTF does that have to do with anything? When I was about 18 (41 now) I was unloading flat bed trucks, and some moron drove the forklift onto the load and knocked me off. I had 2 choices, go to congress and enact a law to prevent idiots from driving forklifts, then add rails to the flat beds, and have a harness on the pallets so they wouldn't move. The other choice was to get up and beat the crap out of the IDIOT that can't drive a lift.

Which one did I chose?

go to congress ???? You like the extremes don't you .......  Or maybe you had a third choice which was to change the way you worked so you weren't stood on the edge of the truck when the forklift arrived - don't need congress for that.

My industry is being bombarded by cheap chinese knockoffs. So what? WTF do I care? I can compete against them. I do better work, and I put out a better product. If I have a customer that wants price price price then I walk, I don't need them. I don't want a customer that only wants price. I need customers that want long term dependabilty, that understand quality over quantity.

Sounds like a solid strategy to me. You're in the fortunate postion of being able to find a niche market - it may not last however.

I'm not whining about any bill of goods but looking at the big picture.  All is well in your world - you can still compete by niche marketing and your business is growing - WTG.  But lets say you get an offer from the chinese government - they will build you a factory in an area where there is good quality labour at 30% of what you are paying and no benefits requirements. You can now make the same product that you are now to the same quality for 40-50% of what it costs now ........... you gonna keep your US production facility or move ?????

You miss my point - YOU don't owe your workers a job - no-one owes me a job - my skills and work ethic are what keep me employed. However over the last 100-200 years we have built in our  countries  a working environment, and standard of living that goes with it, that we collectively find acceptable. To keep what we have we NEED people working.

Aviation is an industry where niche marketing doesn't apply and there are others. We are losing work to companies operating in societies where living standards are way below ours and work regimes we classed as unacceptable 50 years ago.

Your answer to this is to wind the clock back in the west 50-100 years and return to 3rd world working conditions so we can compete.  Look out of your door for a minute and consider what your grand kids might be doing after they finish college.

Quite honestly my world isn't cute its F*****g depressing actually and the management style you seem to glorify in doesn't improve it.

Let me summarize - I work in an economy where we ALL agreed what the standards we ALL consider acceptable were in terms of standard of living and safety. These standards are not recent but the product of 100's of years of industrial progress.  Now the choice is lose your ability to work (trade services) or face a massive drop in standard of living ???   YOU don't owe me a job - we owe it to OURSELVES to protect our standards.

[Gyro/T69]

[WhiteHawk]

Originally posted by Airhead
Rip, you should be celebrating- after all, your brother in law was probably Union, and we all know how lazy THOSE guys are.
They deserve to get the rug pulled out from them, right?

Do you have paid holidays at your work?  Do you have OSHA? Do you have paid vacations and a 40 hour work week with overtime afterwords?  If you have any of them you can thank the unions.
But enjoy them while they last, even the uper management at my work is scared at what is going to happen in the next 4 years.

[WhiteHawk]

Originally posted by Gyro/T69

Precisely gyro.  I knew that when that happened that our standards would be comming way the fck down.

[EN4CER]

Sorry to here that Rip.  Not pleasant, especially around the Holidays.

[Lazerus]

At the risk of being crude..................

"My sisters ex husband
can't get no lovin'
walks around dog faced and hurt.

Now he's got nothin'
head in the oven
I can't decide which is worse"

TP

[Lazerus]

And in response to the original post....

Truly sorry to hear that Rip. It's never a good time, but right now has to be the worst time. I hope everything works out for the best for them.

[JB73]

Originally posted by Airhead
ROC, what happened was BB73 lamented on CheckSix.Net his inability to find female companionship. Being the good comrades we are we offered him all kinds of advice, but the problem is that none of us at CheckSix.Net are any luckier in love than BB73 is, so... our advice was really bad, and BB73 got pissed off. He left in a huff with what has to be the greatest I Quit post EVAR, and since then he likes to take potshots at us.

Appropiate he'd take one here, in a thread about vindictiveness.

i dont know whether to be proud or pissed at your comments LMFAO

[TweetyBird]

>>Don't blame WalMart, Blame the masses for not paying for the $135.95 toaster. Walmart should Not be in business because the consumer is demanding the price? Somehow the US should subsidise the toaster maybe? Or Force the import fees on the China product and tack on 130 bucks to artificially create a comperable priced toaster?
<<

I'm just asking for a big red label on any imported item stating exactly how many American jobs were lost in its manufacture. If WalMart is strictly price and demand, I'm sure they won't mind letting people know how many of the products on their shelves are made in China.

Perhaps a big blue label on American made items, and how many jobs it created in its manufacture. See, I think more people WOULD buy American if the choice was simply laid out. WalMart's business is obscurring the choice.

[mosgood]

Originally posted by Airhead

Mosgood, I never said "It's all your fault rip . Your brother-in-laws family is having a lean xmas all because of you" so please, don't make up quotes and attribute them to me, OK?

your right.   ok

[Dago]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin

Southwest does its maintenance in Dallas, Pheonix, Houston, Baltimore, Chicago, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Oakland, and Tampa Bay.  As I recall, these are all cities in the USA and they must follow domestic employment practice.  SW employs a domestic labor force for all other jobs as well, and still operates more profitably than the old line carriers.

AA, Delta, United and US Airways aren't losing because they don't outsource jobs, they are losing because jet fuel costs more and Southwest has a better business model so it can still profit from smaller margins.

If I understand correctly, Southwest only does line maintenance in those cities, it outsources the heavy checks.  These are the costly checks, that really eat up the manhours and require substantial maintenance facilities.

You can bet AA, United and USAirways is outsourcing heavy checks now too.  I know AA and UAL are, and I would imagine US Air is too.

A lot more involved than just simply saying "business model".

dago