U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,

[wombatt]

Originally posted by Lizking
He applied for CO status once he realized that he might have to actually do what he volunteered for.

LOL yeppers

[GRUNHERZ]

Why is this even an issue, inst he simply a deserter?

[Staga]

He may be a deserter or a frigging alien from outer space but his claims have to be investigated anyways.
I just hope his story was just that, a story without any truth.

[Crumpp]

True, but does that mean he shouldn't also report such incidents to the press when he gets back? Should such things be kept within the military ... the military takes care of its own?

A soldier could report it to the press with no repercussions as long as it was the truth.  It happens all the time.  It is individuals who make up the Army so why bring the entire organization down for the actions of a few bad apples.  

Usually though most are smart enough to realize the American press is more interested in sensationalism than it is in responsibly reporting the truth or presenting a balanced perspective.  Boring stories of the system working properly just don't sell the newspapers like searing exposé's.  Down side of capitalism.  Newspaper are there to make money, not necessarily report the truth.  Why do you think they need armies of lawyers?  Helps them to walk a fine line sometimes.  

Just look at the Iraqi Prison scandals.  That was a story that first broke because the Army's Public Affairs Office told the United Press about the allegations and criminal investigations that were underway.  The United Press chooses to publish another sensational expose!  The press did not come out and say "We found this" but they did not draw undue attention to the fact the army told them either.  They just let their writing create the perception they wanted.  It worked and gave the bad guys a moral victory.

Nobody twisted this "kids" arm to join.  He volunteered in exchange for a decent benefits package, a living wage, and organizational trust.  No other institution in America will give an 18 year old the level of trust and responsiblity the Military would have placed in him.  When I was 19 and a team leader, I was responsible for hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment along with men to lead to accomplish a job.  Most places won't trust a 19 year with a broom to sweep the floor under supervision.

Crumpp

[Steve]

First off, the guy was NEVER in the Marines.  EVER

Second off, the unarmed civilians he was referring to were kidnapped by the Fedayeen forces and forced to run through checkpoints(wth terrorists in their midst) in an effort to get past.

Third, the guy started attending Quaker church meetings AFTER 9/11 and then decided he was a Quaker and could not enter combat.

If you are going to post whackjob propaganda, expect the truth to come out, eventually.

[Lizking]

Massey is applying for protection, too, GS.

[Morpheus]

I call BS.

But even so.

People die in war. That is what war is. Death and destruction. What do people expect?

Its nothing pretty, or beautiful, it never was, never is or never will be.

But again, I call BS on this.

[Lizking]

We agree, GS, it is the method and reasons for making his claims that I have issue with, not the fact that he is doing so.

Just like Kerry in front of the senate.

[Crumpp]

it is your duty to the people to tell them your story.

That is true.  It has been my experience though in the 17 years I have been involved in every major US Conflict that it is much more of a problem to get the press to tell the truth than the soldiers.

I mean look at this idiotic website!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4077935.stm


 "New attacks 'kill Iraq civilians'"

Man the coalition is at it again!!  Bad America wantonly killing civilians!  Wait, it's the "freedom fighters" who set the bomb off among their own people, right?!?!

Why didn't the Headline read "Terrorist Kill Innocent Civilians in Iraq" ?  That is what the story is about.

click on the related internet links:

Iraqi Body Count

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

Read the incidents at the top of the scrolling screen and tell me who is responsible for those deaths?  Coalition Forces??

You can bet though the Coalition is being blamed for each death the terrorist cause with roadside bombs, random rocket attacks, and suicide bombers.  That is why they do it because the survivors will blame us.  Hell the press does.

There is a whole psychology to this kind of warfare and it is very effective because their are many sheep in the world.  So tuck your wool in...things will be ok.

Crumpp

[Staga]

Originally posted by Lizking
We agree, GS, it is the method and reasons for making his claims that I have issue with, not the fact that he is doing so.

Just like Kerry in front of the senate.

So why did he made those accusations? You seem to know this case well enough to bring some light to this thread

[Bodhi]

Originally posted by ra
That guy should run for president.

[Crumpp]

Perhaps this is a case of US and Europeans being somewhat different in their wording and intended meaning. Perhaps Americans and Europeans (probably even among their own respective nations) read the news differently.

I disagree.  Just on the story you might have point.  However the fact the BBC would entertain those "links" speaks volumes.  

Simply put, willing or unwilling, the press is the best proganda machine terrorism has going for it.

Crumpp

[Staga]

I wonder if Crump forgot to take his Prozacs?
Like GS I couldn't find anything in that report which would blame coalition troops?

[Staga]

Anyways it looks like Army is quite eager to cover its actions; maybe actions like this is only way how to get accurate info from Iraq...'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4079891.stm

[Crumpp]

Anyways it looks like Army is quite eager to cover its actions; maybe actions like this is only way how to get accurate info from Iraq...'

One guy wrote some letters and you only have a small part of one side.  The "whole army" is hardly applicable.

Crumpp