Author Topic: U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,  (Read 2354 times)

Offline Muckmaw1

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 593
US. killed unarmed Iraqis, war-dodger hearing told
 
Colin Perkel
Canadian Press


Wednesday, December 08, 2004


 
 
TORONTO (CP) - A former United States marine told a refugee hearing for an American war dodger Tuesday that trigger-happy U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children, and murdered other Iraqis in violation of international law.

In chilling testimony intended to bolster the asylum claim of compatriot Jeremy Hinzman, former staff sergeant Jimmy Massey recounted how nervous soldiers trained to believe that all Iraqis were potential terrorists often opened fire indiscriminately.

"I was never clear on who the enemy was," Massey, 33, told the hearing.

"If you have no enemy or you do not know who the enemy is, what are you doing there?"

On several occasions, his soldiers pumped hundreds of bullets into cars that failed to stop at U.S. military checkpoints, killing all occupants - who were later found to be unarmed, Massey said.

On another occasion, marines reacted to a stray bullet by killing a small group of unarmed protesters and bystanders, said Massey, who said he suffers from nightmares and post-traumatic stress disorder.

"I was deeply concerned about the civilian casualties," he said.

"What they were doing was committing murder."

Massey's statements echoed earlier testimony from Hinzman, who says he fled the U.S. military because he believed the invasion of Iraq was illegal, and any violent acts he committed there would be unconscionable.

"This was a criminal war," Hinzman said.

"Any act of violence in an unjustified conflict is an atrocity."

Hinzman, 26, deserted his regiment in January just days before being deployed to Iraq, and fears he will be unfairly court-martialled if returned to the United States.

Hinzman told the Immigration and Refugee Board hearing that the U.S. military regarded all Arabs in the Middle East - Iraqis in particular - as potential terrorists to be eliminated.

"We were referring to these people as savages," Hinzman testified.

"It fosters an attitude of hatred that gets your blood boiling."

While a federal government lawyer said U.S. deserters often get about a year in jail, Hinzman countered he would be treated more harshly because of his views on the Iraq war.

"Serving even one day in prison for refusing to comply with an illegal order is too long," Hinzman said.

"I would be prosecuted for acting upon a political belief . . . for refusing to do something that was wrong."

A Washington Post reporter covering the hearings said Americans are extremely sensitive to Hinzman's request for asylum because of parallels to the Vietnam War.

"There's a great deal of worry that Iraq is beginning to look a little like Vietnam," said Doug Struck.

"Americans are very worried when their servicemen start saying, 'No, we're not going to go.' It sends alarms off."

Offline ra

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3569
U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2004, 11:59:15 AM »
That guy should run for president.

Offline Airhead

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3369
      • http://www.ouchytheclown.com
U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2004, 12:05:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ra
That guy should run for president.


He did- but he lost.

Offline Lizking

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2502
U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2004, 12:13:54 PM »
And just like Kerry, if he committed, or saw atrocities, he should not be in the media, he should be in front of his superior officers reporting it.  I call total bull**** on both of these guys.

Offline Flit

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1035
U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2004, 12:20:05 PM »
Sounds like desertion in the face of the enemy to me

Offline straffo

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10029
U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2004, 12:23:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Lizking
And just like Kerry, if he committed, or saw atrocities, he should not be in the media, he should be in front of his superior officers reporting it.  I call total bull**** on both of these guys.


I'm not sure to translate accuratly your post but IMO a war without atrocities simply don't exist.

Or by atrocities you mean something I don't know.

Offline Lizking

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2502
U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2004, 12:25:59 PM »
No, you have it right.  They do happen, and the proper course of action for someone who sees or is forced to participate in them is to immediately report it to your commander, not NBC news.

Offline RTStuka

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 869
Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2004, 01:11:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Muckmaw1
US. killed unarmed Iraqis, war-dodger hearing told
 
Colin Perkel
Canadian Press




I got to this point and stopped reading.:aok

Offline indy007

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3294
Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2004, 01:14:58 PM »
Quote
Hinzman, 26, deserted his regiment in January just days before being deployed to Iraq, and fears he will be unfairly court-martialled if returned to the United States.


He wants aslyum because he refused to serve the military that he volunteered for? He didn't even deploy to Iraq. I hope the Canadians senf him back and he gets a few years for desertion. I think he would have had better odds though had he hopped on a plane to France or Germany.

Offline Lizking

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2502
U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2004, 01:21:14 PM »
He applied for CO status once he realized that he might have to actually do what he volunteered for.

Offline Gunslinger

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10084
U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2004, 01:29:27 PM »
Quote
On several occasions, his soldiers pumped hundreds of bullets into cars that failed to stop at U.S. military checkpoints, killing all occupants - who were later found to be unarmed, Massey said.


This happens an awffull lot in Iraq but to me to say this is in fact a war crime is ludacris at best.  These guys set up check points and civilians try to run it.  They know full well what's going to happen if they do and the troops have every right to open fire to this percieved threat.

Offline Yeager

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10167
U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2004, 01:59:50 PM »
I haven't payed too much attention to this story but I have always believed canada would be a preferred place to flee to as opposed to mexico.  Having said that, these people that flee to canada to avoid voluntary duty in the united states military should be deported back to the united states to face charges of desertion.

I do not believe in the draft and would likely flee to canada myself if I were ever forced to serve involuntarilly, as such I hold nothing against people that flee the country to avoid involuntary servitude, I support them.

IMO, If you cant muster a volunteer military force your cause is not worth defending.
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline ra

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3569
U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2004, 02:04:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
IMO, If you cant muster a volunteer military force your cause is not worth defending.

FDR didn't think so.

Offline Crumpp

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3671
U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2004, 02:59:41 PM »
Quote
No, you have it right. They do happen, and the proper course of action for someone who sees or is forced to participate in them is to immediately report it to your commander, not NBC news.


Exactly.  In fact you have a duty NOT to obey an unlawful order, STOP any atrocity, and immediately report the individual issuing the order to the chain of command or PMO.



Quote
He applied for CO status once he realized that he might have to actually do what he volunteered for.


Yep.  What a ****.

Quote
These guys set up check points and civilians try to run it. They know full well what's going to happen if they do and the troops have every right to open fire to this perceived threat.


It's impossible to tell the folks running a check point because they are stupid from the fanatics who are driving a car bomb to blow up the checkpoint.  Instead of an IFF,  Identification Friend or Foe,  we need an ISS, Identification Stupid or Suicidal.

Crumpp

Offline Lizking

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2502
U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2004, 03:43:41 PM »
GS, if he reported it to his superiors and nothing happened.  No problem, blab it to the world.

This gentleman is making these claims to save his own ass, not because of any concern of his for the innocent.