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Author Topic: U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,  (Read 2356 times)

Offline Staga

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U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2004, 07:41:29 PM »
Guess you didn't read that link.
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Offline Crumpp

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U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2004, 07:44:52 PM »
Actually I did Staga.  Being in the US Army I have become accustom to the "post Iraqi prison abuse" feeding frenzy of the press.  

Very little of these kind of stories amount to anything when the full truth is brought to light.  So you can get excited and dance if you like.

Crumpp
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Offline Crumpp

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U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #32 on: December 08, 2004, 07:53:03 PM »
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Now I think I'm the one who don't get your meaning. What do you mean by the BBC "entertain those 'links'"?


Look at the Internet links on the right hand side.

Some are legit.  Some are just ridiculous, such as Iraqi Body Count.

Crumpp
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Offline Crumpp

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U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #33 on: December 08, 2004, 09:35:50 PM »
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AFAIK the statistical material on that site is well documented.


What is ridiculus is the fact that site definately creates the impression the coalition is the cause of all civilian deaths and that it does not care about it.  

I know good men who pick up a rifle and go room to room rather than take the risk of inflicting innocent casualties.  Some of them have paid with their lives for it.
 

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Offline Crumpp

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U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2004, 10:05:36 PM »
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Yeah I know, but I don't think that site (or any other anti-war sites) blame the soldiers.


Does not matter.  By creating doubt about the war they:

1.  Erode the will to fight it and create doubt thereby prolonging the misery of war.

2. Bolster the enemies will to fight it therby prolonging the misery of war.

If they erode the will long enough then the Western Forces will pull out.  That is what the terrorist want.  Iraq will have a baathist extremist government which certainly will not be better for the iraqi's.  All the soldiers who gave their lives trying to stop them will have died for nothing.

They cannot defeat us on the battlefield but Vietnam proved that any democracy can be beaten at the presses.

Going to war should never be undertaken lightly.  If the decision is made then do what is necessary to bring a swift end to the misery under palatable terms.  The time to question reasons is after, not during, once the decision is made.
If the political leadership was wrong sending the nation to war then I will join the calls to see justice AFTER the war is won.

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Offline Crumpp

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U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2004, 10:37:24 PM »
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There is no such cohesion of will and thought in a democracy. People must have the right to express their opinions freely no matter the situation ... or consequences. If your people do not have the resolution to fight this war without suppressing free speech, then you should not fight this war.


And here endth the discussion.  Nobody said a thing about suppressing free speech.  I am talking about exercising individual responsibility and telling the truth.

You can put out the same information.  Just like that Iraq Body count.  There is nothing wrong with bringing attention to the innocent people who are injured in Iraq.  Not only is that very necessary, getting the people of Iraq help is the desired end state!!  To do it in the manner they have, by creating the perception the Coalition is killing innocents and simply does not care is factually wrong. It is pure propaganda.  It is using free speech to distort the truth creating a false perception.  Same thing Goebbels used to do.

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Offline TweetyBird

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U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2004, 11:09:04 PM »
60 minutes did a piece about the deserters in the Iraq war. I think they stated a number of about 5000. I'm really interested how this plays out, and I think George W's national guard service is going to be revisited without the phoney documents. I have a feeling a huge microscope is going over his duty if deserters start being prosecuted. I have no opinion either way, but am very interested how it plays out. Another great plot for a novel. Its going to be interesting.

A few things are evident. Bush and some of his administration purposely avoided VietNam with politcal pull. It will be interesting to see them proceed with prosecuting deserters without all types of dirty laundry falling out. But they can not just ignore the problem. This could get so interesting and lead to Watergate type crimes.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2004, 11:20:40 PM by TweetyBird »
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Offline Steve

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U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2004, 11:12:44 PM »
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People must have the right to express their opinions freely no matter the situation ... or consequences.



This is not what free speech or democracy is about.

Learn what a tort is.
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Offline Pongo

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U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2004, 11:33:45 PM »
"It is pure propaganda. It is using free speech to distort the truth creating a false perception. Same thing Goebbels used to do. "

hmm
Goebels actually used the lack of free speach to allow the goverment to control the countries perceptions and increase their will to fight.

"Does not matter. By creating doubt about the war they:

1. Erode the will to fight it and create doubt thereby prolonging the misery of war.

2. Bolster the enemies will to fight it therby prolonging the misery of war. "


So any statement that increases the willingness to fight is good. And anything that might decrease it is propaganda. What about something that is just the simple truth?

I dont think that you know what propaganda is. You seem to have reversed it in this case.
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Offline Flit

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U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2004, 11:49:36 PM »
ya missed the "using free speech to distort the truth to create a false perception " part:D
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Offline Hogboy

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U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2004, 04:49:34 AM »
What a punk coward this guy is!  Traitor too.

I hope he gets 20 years at hard labor in Leavenworth.
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Offline SunTracker

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U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #41 on: December 09, 2004, 04:59:27 AM »
The sad fact of the matter is, after U.S. soldiers have been in a war zone for a few months, killing civillians becomes easy.  This isnt just unique to U.S. troops, all troops are suceptable to killing indiscrimantely.

I knew things were turning bad when that Bradley gunner blew apart that van full of women and children.
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Offline SirLoin

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U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #42 on: December 09, 2004, 05:02:22 AM »
I bet there'sa whole lot of youth thinkin twice about havin Uncle Sam pay for their college tuition now.
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Offline Crumpp

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U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #43 on: December 09, 2004, 09:25:54 AM »
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The sad fact of the matter is, after U.S. soldiers have been in a war zone for a few months, killing civillians becomes easy.


Please read:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0316330116/002-4840430-9783214?v=glance

It is a huge myth that killing becomes "easier" the more you do it.  In fact it becomes harder to kill over and over again.

Crumpp
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Offline YTSSGTD

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U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children,
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2004, 09:44:25 AM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
No. The person making the "killing women and children" claim, Jimmy Massey was just a defence-witness in the court case of the deserter Jeremy Hinzman. Jimmy Massey is a former USMC staff sergeant that served in Iraq.


Umm, no he was not a Marine, I just looked on MOL on the Personnell locator. And ther is no matches to that name.

This hole thing is B.S
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