Author Topic: fw-190a8 tips  (Read 1040 times)

Offline mrfish

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fw-190a8 tips
« on: April 22, 2001, 04:33:00 AM »
i am getting the hang of it - even fully cannon laden, and am convinced it rules -

but tell me...how do you reverse this pig  

every time i do i lose 35 thousand feet - well minor exaggeration, but it is a problem. also i have found that the best defense is not to get into a disadvantage - any tips for the unfortunate situation where you are at a disadvantage?

i'd like to exploit the roll rate better but all i can think of is the scissor and a kind of exaggerated barrel roll which has worked well in the past -

any help will be appreciated  

Offline Soulyss

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fw-190a8 tips
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2001, 05:43:00 AM »
ok i've only just started to fly the 190 series myself (mostly the dora because honeslty I'm not good enough to be succesful in the a8 yet)   but what I try to so is if I find someone saddled up on my 6 is that I'll roll and begin a break in one direction whle looking back at the approaching con and when I see his wings come up and start to follow me I'll quicking keep rollin and break down and away in the opposite direction if he clsing speed is fast enough he'll over shoot and most likely pull up in a zoom and if I roll back and pull up I can usually get a quick shot at him before he gets out of range.  But like most cases making sure he doesn't end up back there in the first place is the best defense.  Also if you really want 190 help go try and track down some of the real LW people like wilbuz, stsanta, or kirin in the MA.  
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Offline illo

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fw-190a8 tips
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2001, 08:31:00 AM »
IMO 190d-9 is not the best choice if you want learn to stay alive in 190a-8. Dora gets out of most situations that would kill a-8.


I have also problems reversing a8. It easily starts to drop wing ahead if you try to hammerhead. I thought 190s had very heavy nose due to engine and not much directional stability(causing very fast instantaneous turnability) but MB im wrong or just dont understand physics  


In Warbirds about half of my kills came after 1.5sec 180dgr reverses in 190. There it was easy in WB Fw190a4 and a8...here in AH i do it fine with some other planes, but 190 refuses to just drop its nose down. I usually end up in stall like situation where my nose points almost down but i dont have much any control of plane.

 

[This message has been edited by illo (edited 04-22-2001).]

Offline illo

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fw-190a8 tips
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2001, 09:09:00 AM »
About what you should do when someone is at your 6.


This depends much from opponent. Some planes turn very poorly at high speeds or retain their E so good that high speed turn will drop them off instantly.  I usually dive little at 0g to get more speed if opponent is poor high speed turner (109, p38...) when he comes to 1k I roll to my back wait until 800yards and pull hard until my nose points almost down. Then i roll 90 or 180dgr and pull up to level and see if I can get good burst in if not i try to disengage to opposite direction. If con can turn good in high speed i do this same maneuver but without dive at start...so that he overshoots easier while im slow. This works most of time if done right...if it doesnt you must adjust timing of your move, keep your and his speeds high(diving) or stay slow and make him buzz by fast. If you are both slow you are dead. I use all time between evasives to get separation and speed back so i can evade again.


Anyway you have already done some mistake if you end up in that situation. Dont fixate anywhere, be on move. Dive, hit, climb up and attack someone else next. Only attack with good advantage. Disengage when you still have advantage, not when you have already lost it. And watch sky to get out before any high cons come to your way.


good hunt!  


ps. Im very glad to see people trying FW 190As...if i only had my 190a6 in AH  
Well i have to carry extra armor of a8 until that  


[This message has been edited by illo (edited 04-22-2001).]

Offline Seahawk

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fw-190a8 tips
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2001, 09:58:00 AM »
"ButcherBird guide for a free lunch" by DocDoom should help just fine... i've already sent money for it, can't wait.

Offline illo

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« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2001, 01:32:00 PM »
Hi shawk!   Nice to see you here!

That book must be very interesting, I've thought about buying it once in a while.

Offline StSanta

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« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2001, 02:33:00 PM »
The A8 is best flown with a wingie or through furballs.

With a wingie, he can cover you when you zoom up for reversal, keeping that valuable e. The best way to kill is to go *very fast* and use the exceptional 8for LW planes) guns to make snapshot kills. If you predict the breakturn of a N1K or a spit, you can put enough lead on to down him with a single burst.

Stay fast. Don't turn. Use a wingie.

And the Wuerger will be lethal.

It's NOT a 1v1 plane, and all fighters will outperform it. Stealing the e from an A8 is quite easy.

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Offline mrfish

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fw-190a8 tips
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2001, 10:09:00 PM »
thanks for your assistance and great tips! now to go out and die like a dweeb - also one last thing i learned the last few days to aim with a small point on the cowling rather than the gunsight - it seems to correct for the hideous bullet drop. i have been in smooth deflection trailings and actually seen hit sprites on the floor board! now that is some sink  

Offline Seahawk

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« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2001, 07:18:00 AM »
Hi illo   u2.

When i'll get the book ill tell you a bit from whats inside   just to TEASE u! muhahah!  
190a8...hmm...simillar to (the nest) p47 I think....tho p47 out turn it...slightly....and 190 will outroll it...(on slower speeds) ..... FROM WHAT I'EV HEARD.



Offline SpitLead

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« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2001, 06:28:00 PM »
Ha ha ha StSanta.  The other day I was in a 190d and you were in a 109 and you wondered why I wouldn't go 1-vs-1 with you! You just answered that yourself.  It's not a good 1-vs-1 airplane.  The 109 can out turn the 190 and it has good speed and great climb.  Thanks!  :-)

Offline R4M

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« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2001, 06:56:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by SpitLead:
The 109 can out turn the .  Thanks!  :-)

MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECCCCCCCC! wrong  

I LOVE to turnfight 1vs1 agaisnt 109G10s in my Fw190A5 or my Fw190D9 (I'm not using the A8 lately, the A5 and D9 are my two sweet loves   ).

What some people simply cant understand (and wich leads to some laughable opinions, like "the F4U turns like a Fw190A5"   ) is that the Fw190 can effectively close a flight with a 109G10 or a F4U and win it, only because the 109 or hog is stupid enough to start turning and slowing himself down.

Almost any plane on this game will turn closer than a 190. What is not so clear is wich one will turn FASTER!   . For instance, if you are on a 109's six and the bugger is closing his turns to outturn you, and you keep your 190's speed over 220mph,turning outside his turning circle, you will eventually be able to pull your plane into his six. Why? because you have done the turn FASTER than him, and you have kept a bit more E to pull and burn it in the key moment.Also remember that turn radius and turnrate is not the same...he can turn in a dime, but if you do it in less time...got the picture?  

Also, the 190 can pull hi-lo yoyo motion wich allows it to win some angles wich never would be able to win in a flat turn. So, effectively, if a F4U1 is so stupid to slow himself to 150mph in a close turning motion (with flaps an all that paraphernalia), I will simply keep my dora at 220, start a hi-low yoyo motion and in a couple of turns the hog is history.

Keep the 190 fast. NEVER go with a 190 under 200mph IAS. Two golden rules you should never forget to fly it well in close fites   . You cant turn TIGHTER than them. But for sure you can OUTTURN them  


[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 04-23-2001).]

Offline mrfish

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fw-190a8 tips
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2001, 10:39:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by R4M:
[BKeep the 190 fast. NEVER go with a 190 under 200mph IAS.[/B]

i've been trying that - it works best it seems to set up your attack at altitude and do all your maneuvering on the way down while you have the speed - and then to extend or cash the speed back in for alt and repeat as necessary - it actually turns pretty good when youre fast i think - takes a while to set up an attack this way tho...

Offline Ripsnort

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fw-190a8 tips
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2001, 08:52:00 AM »
I've always claimed that if you become profient in this A/C, all other Boom and Zoom A/C seem alittle easier to transition to, and fly.

Fly it smart.  You start at a disadvantage on just about all aspects in performance against other B&Z aircraft, but you learn to fly smart to prevent from dying...thus, when you finally do saddle up in a better B&Z aircraft, all the patience you've learned in the 190A8 starts to pay off.

I primarily use B&Z tactics, implementing the hammarhead to come back down on my prey, extending each and every time, and never venture too low, or too close to enemy that can perch up above you and pick you off as you are 'working over ' your victim.

Offline Lephturn

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fw-190a8 tips
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2001, 01:38:00 PM »
What RAM is describing above is flying with turn rate vs. turn radius.  (Good description RAM, but I will just clarify because your english may confuse a few folks.  It's better than my Spanish though!)

The 190 series does not have a small turn radius, but it has a high turn rate.  So while the Spit may turn in a much smaller circle than the 190, the 190 can fly a larger circle but at a faster speed, and still make a 360 degree turn very quickly.  The trick is to understand how your plane compares to the opponent's plane, and choose the correct way to engage him based on that.

Basically, the fighter with a smaller turn radius should choose a nose to nose fight (a one circle fight), while the fighter with a higher turn rate (but a larger turn radius) should choose a nose to tail fight (a two circle fight).

Check out this page I found:  http://www.vfa-13.com/takeoff/topgun/acm4.html

Now bear in mind that this isn't simply about the performance of the aircraft.  What speed both of the aircraft are flying at the start of the engagement has a huge bearing on how tight the turn radius will be, and what your turn rate will be.  For the intial few moves of the engagement, a much faster bogey is going to be the rate fighter, regardless of comparitive plane performance.  A Zeke at 400 Mph versus my Jug at 250 and the Jug has the radius advantage, at least to start.  That is an extreme example, but the point is valid.  Remember that as you fly above your best sustained corner velocity, your turn rate and your turn radius both increase.  Take this into account when you are engaging a bogey, and don't try to use radius fighter tactics if you are travelling too fast and thus do not have a small turn radius.

Some rules of thumb.  In a radius fighter (one with a small turn radius), you want to engage in nose to nose, one cirle fights.  This means that you turn whatever way he turns.  If he goes up, you go up.  If he goes North, you go north.  Speed and energy permitting of course.  In a rate fighter (one with a faster turn rate), you want to force a two circle, nose to tail fight.  This can be tricky, especially if the bogey turns upwards, since diving at the merge will likely lose you the fight.  However, if we talk completely in the horizontal, the rate fighter generally would want to turn away from the direction of the break of his opponent.  As you can see from the examples, is thins way the rate fighter can use his advantage.

Now, there are more ways to use a rate advantage than that.  Primarily they all have to do with keeping superior speed through the use of lag pursuit and out of plane maneuvers such as high yoyos and such to maintain position.  It is even possible to win one circle fights in the vertical, although very difficult.  It is this challenge that draws many folks to planes such as the P-51, the FW-190, and my favourite the P-47.  

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Karaya One

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fw-190a8 tips
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2001, 09:40:00 AM »
Split-S or Wingover. Even a Hammerhead. Hammerheads are fun in the 190s.

Use the vertical. If you loose or E get the heck out of dodge.

Its not a T&B plane. If you dont have the advantage on the first pass get out, grab and find another.