F7f

[whels]

Originally posted by Pongo


The only "line" that HT should consider is:
Was the aircraft developed and delivered in ww2 to line units and is enough known about it to model it?

The only issue is the perk price. The game has a mechanism in place to allow these aircraft to be included.  A few perk carrier birds would be a great addition to the game. IMHO.

Both these Grumman birds should be in the game. IMHO

If a plane was  in production (not prototypes) and in
sqaudron serviceduring WW2, it should be in AH.

[GRUNHERZ]

I find it hillarious that the F7F and F8F guys say the other standard is "self serving."

[Tilt]

Originally posted by whels
If a plane was  in production (not prototypes) and in
sqaudron serviceduring WW2, it should be in AH.

To my mind it should have seen active (combatative) service (against enemy planes or positions) in at least squadron strength.

Which makes even the 152 a very marginal case if a valid one at all.

[Tilt]

Originally posted by Pongo
Russia, Germany, Japan is correct if you pick mid 1940- mid 1941

This is not correct either.......Russia was never part of the axis alliance.......... Stalin wanted to be neutral right up to July 41.

and "Great England" (Great Britain ?) was not part of the axis alliance either.

Some guy called Winston Churchill refused peace offerrings.

BoB = one huge freindly fire incident?

[Wolfala]

GS,,

Consider the question: I started the post. So if you had something productive to contribute (which you do not) - then take the previous advice.

It was a simple question that was asked and some historical info that was requested.

Viewed in that light - No hard feelings!

Wolfala

[leitwolf]

If we ever get a F7F/F8F, I want a La-9 too. *drool*

[Kweassa]

This is not correct either.......Russia was never part of the axis alliance.......... Stalin wanted to be neutral right up to July 41.

 Yup.

 Soviet Russia, neither officially nor unofficially, was in any kind of affiliation with the Axis. If the close diplomatic contacts and conferences with the Germans, before Barbarossa was initiated, would make them "Axis", then by that standards the UK would also be "Axis" before the initiation of the Poland Blitz.

 

To my mind it should have seen active (combatative) service (against enemy planes or positions) in at least squadron strength.

 Returning to the original theme..

 Wouldn't the Ta152 be considered about the final border line before going off the "WW2-scale"? The production/deployed numbers may have been small, but weren't they officially admitted as a part of the JG301, in official service under normal sanctioned operations, flying organized sorties, seeing small amount of actual combat on a more or less regular basis?

 To me the F7F or F8F clearly does not seem to be that case. Personally I absolutely hate the plane choices 1C:Maddox has made for IL2/FB, and think anything like the Salamander or the Gotha, or the Kikka, Shooting Star would be out of the question for a WW2 sim. But I think the Ta152 or the Me163 does belong inside the 'boundary'.

[Pongo]

Well.
Tell the poles that the USSR wasnt part of the Axis in 1939.. Im sure they would find it hillarios. You all know that the Soviets and Germans divided Poland in 1939 right? Isnt that ususally something that allies do?


Gurnhurtz. Ya it is funny. I acknolege that. But the whole discussion is silly.
People draw their lines in the sand but thats all they are.  lines in the sand that really mean nothing.

The second an ensign launched a sorti to patrol over his carrier en route to the front in 1945 the Bearcat was a WW2 combat Aircraft. Period.
Why would anyone even dream of saying differently? Because no enemy plane bobbed up in front of the it? So where the pilots that flew it not participants in WW2 either?

People do not want to see the Uber US iron. dont try to come up with silly excuses and qualifications that "prove" they should not be in a WW2 game. They should be.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by Pongo


Gurnhurtz. Ya it is funny. I acknolege that. But the whole discussion is silly.
 

Then why go restate your case about in the silly discussion immediately after that sentance?

[Kweassa]

Isnt that ususally something that allies do?

 Actually that's what the entire western powerhouses have been doing all over the world between 1875 and 1945 - like how the Brits would draw abstract lines in the Middel Eastern deserts and call it 'territories', or how US would wade into Phillipine and South American countries and call it theirs by right of conquest.

 Axis-Allied distinction is a very clear political/military term. Division of Poland and playing patsy with the Germans doesn't make Soviets 'Axis', just as same as the Brits and French in cahoots with Germans, Russians, and Japanese, in the destruction and division China, doesn't make them "same side" before WWI.

 Our own country was divided half in 1945 by Soviet occupation in the North and US occupation in the South. We don't go calling US a part of the 'Soviet bloc', do we?

[GRUNHERZ]

USSR was not a part of the formal axis alliance, however they were clearly allied with Nazi Germany in their invasion of Poland in September 1939.

In fact I'm surprised that the western allies did not declare war on the USSR in 1939/1940 considering all their invasions and/or annexations of Poland, Finland, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia..

[Pongo]

Home many naxis fit on the head of a pin?

The russians were playing with the bad guys in 1939-mid 41..period.

[Urchin]

I think Pongo's idea is the best.. if it was in squadron service it should be OK to introduce into the game.  Personally I'd love to see the F8F and F7F in the game.

[GScholz]

I don't see how it even matters if it saw service at all in WWII. The MA isn't a WWII recreation in any way except simulated hardware. There are many nice perk rides out there if you're not too picky on the credentials. The entire MA is a "what if" arena, so why not have "what if" perk rides too?

Historical scenarios don't use the unhistorical planes anyways.

[humble]

Originally posted by Krusty
While it never saw COMBAT in WW2, it was deployed just at the end of the war, thus allowing the possibility that HT will put it in some day as a perk plane (similar to Ta152).

Actually the F7F was deployed operationally in April 1944, however it did not see combat at all and wasnt deployed to frontline units. It's actually a mid 44 bird not a "latewar" plane. Even though it never saw combat technically it was fully operational in may 1944...