The PJ cometh

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Pyro
Why?  There's hardly any difference between the F and G.  OTOH, there is a big difference between the J(last block J's excluded) and the L.

I understood there to be a difference in engine power on overboost (same power on MIL though) and a difference in ordinance hard point capability.

If I'm wrong then the G and J sound great to me.


I've been assuming that you'd do an early J otherwise it wouldn't really make sense alongside the L.

[Guppy35]

And a quote from John Mullins, 1st FG P38 pilot and author of the 1st FG History.

He is talking about the J-25 which is essentially the same plane as the P38L.  This wouldn't be the J we're getting but speaks to the differences between the Early model 38s through the J-20 and the later J-25 and L models.

"In the latter part of the summer the P38J-25 began to appear at Salsola.  This modification of the J series represented the greatest change yet from the pilot's point of view.  The two major differences were the addition of the hydraulic aileron boosters and the placement of dive brakes under each wing.  The aileron boost made an amazing difference.  It was similar to what we now call power steering on automobiles and improved the control sensitivity of the P38 enormously.  During the first take offs in the J-25s the ship litterally fluttered as it left the ground due to the pilot overcontrolling despite his best efforts not to do so."

And a follow up quote from Mullins:

"The dive brake modification was designed and  actually approved early in 1943.  By the time the brakes were installed in the J models over half of all P38s had been constructed.  So goes bureaucracy, even in wartime."

Sounds a tad bitter that old 38 driver

He started in F models and finished in an L model while flying with the 94th FS, 1st FG.

Dan/Slack
Can't wait for that G

[GRUNHERZ]

So Pyro are you saying the AH P38J will be an early model that did not have the powered controls and dive flaps so it is differentriated from the L?

[rshubert]

Originally posted by Karnak
You're right Ack-Ack.  I shouldn't have said it can't dive.  I should have said it can't pull up.


bustr,

As I said in the P-38G and P-38J thread, we needed the P-38F or P-38G for scenarios and the P-38J is icing on the cake.  I'm all for both of these aircraft to be added and am happy to see them.  I have no US vs JP vs UK vs RU vs DE vs IT issues going on here.

What I don't really understand is the enthusiasm for the P-38J when, so far as I can tell, it will be inferior to the P-38L in all  but having a slightly higher top speed.  It isn't that I don't want the P-38J, it is that I don't understand people's apparent expectations of it.

One word: scenarios.

Two words:  combat theater

The more versions we have available, the more we will be able to match a particular period in WW2.



shubie

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So Pyro are you saying the AH P38J will be an early model that did not have the powered controls and dive flaps so it is differentriated from the L?

It would almost have to be unless it's a J-25, which basically makes it an L anyway.  And Pyro's post mentions the last block Js which would be the 25 and implies it's not that one.

Dan/Slack

[Honch]

So Dan, in terms of auguring,
 
The difference between the early ‘J’s and the ‘L’s is that you’d be more likely to ground loop an ‘L’ on take-off but for post-hole digging you’d favor the ‘J’.

Did I get the gist of it?

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Honch
So Dan, in terms of auguring,
 
The difference between the early ‘J’s and the ‘L’s is that you’d be more likely to ground loop an ‘L’ on take-off but for post-hole digging you’d favor the ‘J’.

Did I get the gist of it?

I figure with the more streamlined, small intake G model, I'll get better ground penetration and depth

Dan/Slack

[Karnak]

Originally posted by rshubert
One word: scenarios.

Two words:  combat theater

Somehow I really doubt that is why people are excited about the P-38J.  If that were the case you'd think the P-38G would get noticed.

I think that people expect the P-38J would be some sort of super P-38 that is better than the P-38L.

I think they're in for a surprise.


Personally the P-38G is much more interesting than the P-38J.

[Pyro]

Originally posted by Karnak
I understood there to be a difference in engine power on overboost (same power on MIL though) and a difference in ordinance hard point capability.

Neither the F nor the G had a War Emergency Rating.  The F and the G are pretty overlapping variants and there's not much to gain by having both.  You could make a case for the H as that kind of represents a transitional stage in P-38 development between the early and late models.  

I guess nothing goes without saying but of course it would be completely superfluous to choose a J-25 instead of an earlier J model.

[Karnak]

Ah.

Thanks for the response Pyro.

I do think that they'll both be invaluable assets for the scenario makers.

[eilif]

amen to that!

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Karnak

I think that people expect the P-38J would be some sort of super P-38 that is better than the P-38L.

I think they're in for a surprise.

Yep.


ack-ack

[jamusta]

I still wont be able to fly the darn thing

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Pyro
Neither the F nor the G had a War Emergency Rating.  The F and the G are pretty overlapping variants and there's not much to gain by having both.  You could make a case for the H as that kind of represents a transitional stage in P-38 development between the early and late models.  

I guess nothing goes without saying but of course it would be completely superfluous to choose a J-25 instead of an earlier J model.

Pyro, Military Power on the P-38G-1-Lo and later G models was 1150HP, and WEP was 1325HP. The duration for which WEP is available should be very short, but it IS available. The only thing keeping it from making 1425HP for short bursts was the lack of automated systems for cooling.

The P-38H-1-Lo and P-38H-5-Lo made 1240HP at Military Power and 1425HP at WEP. The difference between the -1 and -5 was the type of turbocharger. The H series DID have the automatic controls.

Since the H model is what the 55th and 20th both went operational with, the H is a very important model.

I certainly agree, the J model should be a -15 or a -20, and not a -25.

[Shane]

In my PJ,
fly I will.
Shot you down,
buttflap kill!!