Question for Pyro

[MANDO]

Why our 190A8/F8 cannot keep using 1.42 ata/2700 rpm power setting?

We cannot go further than 1.32 ata without switching on WEP (C3 injection). The result is that we have an "economical" max "military" power, that is not suited for combat at all, and then a war emergency power, suited for combat, but at the cost of massive fuel consumption.

[Wotan]

I know you read the thread where Pyro admitted there was a calculation error when converting from ATA to inHG (manifold pressure). In fact I even posted a conversion chart and linked back to the original thread where this was brought up in a reply to you.

I am not going to search for those threads but you can if you want.

However, even though the guage reads incorrectly the power output, ie speed is correct (for the most part). Pyro said he wasn't going to spend time fixing it now and would hold off until they update the models and possibly convert the gauges to native units.

IIRC most LW aircraft show the incorrect MP setting.

I haven't had AH on my hard drive in some time and I believe the A-8 mp reads 39.5 @ SL when it should read 41.2 (5.5 psi). But this is just an issue of the 'gauge reading wrong'.

So others know what we are talking about here's a link to my squad forum with the equations and the conversion chart that was originally scanned by butch (but originaly posted on this board by Neil Stirling):

   PS and ATA conversion equations

[MANDO]

Current power settings for 190A listed with E6B.

190A8
Emergency power: 2700 rpm 47.3" (1.58 ata)
Military power: 2400 rpm, 39.5"  (1.32 ata)

190A5
Emergency power: 2700 rpm, 42.5" (1.42 ata)
Military power: 2400, 39.5"  (1.32 ata)

[Wotan]

In bold is what the mp gauge should read:

• 1.42 (max contious or Climb and Combat 30 min?) (ATA) * 28.96 = 41.12 inHG
  
  
• 1.58 (ATA) * 28.96 = 45.75 inHG
  
  
• 1.65 (ATA) * 28.96 = 47.78 inHG
  

EDIT for A5

A5 -
42.5 / 28.96 = 1.47 ATA
39.5 / 28.96 = 1.36 ATA

• 1.42 (ATA) * 28.96 = 41.12 inHG
  
• 1.32 (30 min rating, 'Steig- und kampfleistung' according to the A-5/A-6 manual) (ATA) * 28.96 = 39.22 inHG
  

[MANDO]

Wotan, who cares about the gauges or conversions mistakes?

If the first post in not clear enough for you, I'll use different words.

190A8 jumps from Climb to C3 injection.
190A5 jumps from the very same Climb powersetting to Take off power.

Without considering any conversion mistakes in the gauges or EA6B:

190A5 jumps from 1.32 to 1.42.
190A8/F8 jump from 1.32 to 1.58/1.65.

1.42 is not available for 190A8/F8.

[Crumpp]

1.42ata is the "Emergency Power" rating for the FW-190A8.

Question is how long was it cleared for?

All the information I have at hand says 3 minutes.

Luftwaffe veterans have told me that the time limits increased in 1944 three times up to a maximum of 40 minutes.

Crumpp

[Wotan]

Its either 3 min or 30 min.

In the A5/A6 handbook the 1.32 power setting is climb and combat (30 min) and 1.42 is limited to 3 min. We all know there are issues with the A5 in AH and Pyro will look at it.

However, for the the A8 isn't the 1.32 setting unlimited and 1.42 ata 3min as Crumpp suggests? or 30 min?

See that question mark Mando:

1.42 (max continous or Climb and Combat i.e. 30 min?) (ATA) * 28.96 = 41.12 inHG

[MANDO]

Crumpp, 3 mins was the recommeded limit for 1.42ata  in late 1942 BMW801D2. As far as I know, that limit was in effect only for few late 190A3s.

But we are talking about our C3 injection BMW801D2 in 1944 190A8s. Those had a limit of 10-15 mins for 1.58/1.65 ata.

If 1.42ata was allowed for 30 or 40 mins, then it is equivalent to the 190A5 military recommended time limit, and, btw, twice the time limit recommeded for P38L military power as example. In this case I see no reason to keep the 1942 climb/combat power setting and time limit for 1944 190A8 military power.

[Crumpp]

I agree with you Mando that the FW-190A8 should be able to use 1.42 ata.

I sent Pyro the calibration chart for the Kommandogerat.  It list's all the MP and Prop RPM calibration points.  What we should see when you advance the throttle in a Focke Wulf is the MP, RPM, and prop pitch all change based on real time enviormental input.

If modeled correctly the FW-190 will be a pain to fly in formation.

Advancing the Throttle to full should leave you at 1.42ata @2700U/min in the FW-190A8.  Hitting "Special Emergency Power for the Fighters" should jump you to 1.58/1.65ata @ 2700U/min.

Crumpp, 3 mins was the recommeded limit for 1.42ata in late 1942 BMW801D2. As far as I know, that limit was in effect only for few late 190A3s.

AFAIK and according to the POH's it does not change even in the FW-190A8.  It stays a 3 minute rating.

I have NO documentation that says otherwise.  If you have some please post it or email me a copy!  

I suspect it was regulated to "climb and combat power" rating in the FW-190A8 but would like documented proof to back up what the pilots say.

Thanks!

Crumpp

[MANDO]

Crumpp, to switch ON C3 injection, the engine should be already running 2700 rpm 1.42 ata. Then you have 10-15 mins of substained WEP (some sources) or "as long as is necessary during extreme danger" as pointed out by allied testing during 1945 (you already have that doc), the docs in german already posted here few days ago show also the 10-15 mins limit for 1.58/1.65 ata.

But, do you need even better prove than the testimonies of LW veterans?

Do you have any doc refering to C3 injection equipped 190A8 with a 3 mins limit for 1.42 ata?

[Crumpp]

Crumpp, to switch ON C3 injection, the engine should be already running 2700 rpm 1.42 ata.

Right!  Why do you think I don't agree the FW-190A8 should be able to use 1.42ata?

But, do you need even better prove than the testimonies of LW veterans?

Personally NO.  In fact, Historians will tell you between paper and an eyewitness, take the eyewitness.

Do you have any doc refering to C3 injection equipped 190A8 with a 3 mins limit for 1.42 ata?

Yes.  The Flugzueg-Handbuch for the FW-190A8.

Believe me If I had something that said more time I would be quoting it.

Crumpp

[MANDO]

Originally posted by Crumpp
Right!  Why do you think I don't agree the FW-190A8 should be able to use 1.42ata?

I was just pointing out that 1.42 ata times should be, as minimum, equivalent to 1.58 ata times.

[Crumpp]

I was just pointing out that 1.42 ata times should be, as minimum, equivalent to 1.58 ata times.

I agree.  And I have anecdotal evidence it was extended to 40 minutes at 1.42ata.  Only pointing out though that the documented evidence says only 3 minutes and I am searching for documentation on this issue.

Crumpp

[Naudet]

Crumpp, what you need are the different engine manual releases.
They should provide you with the proper times and boost pressures.

The aircraft handbook doesn't help much in that regard, because it is not as often edited as the engine manuals and the engine information in them is often already obsolete.

[Crumpp]

Thanks Naudet!


Guess it's time to get in touch with the Luft-Archive.

Crumpp