Airbus 380 -- Another Concorde?

[-tronski-]

Originally posted by Halo

So far 139 A380s have been sold, mostly to government-backed airlines like Emirates in Dubai.  

Emirates was started with seed capital of US$10m, the single solitary time the airline has recieved money from the regal purse. It's also one of the most successful airlines in the world with zero govt. support.

Originally posted by Chairboy
There's a slight difference.  Airbus receives charity, eg, money from the government with no need to give anything in return.

Boeing, on the other hand, SELLS aircraft to the military.  Sure, they receive dollars from the US Government, but it's in exchange for goods and services.

I understand, the distinction may be difficult for some.

Airbus are "supposed" to pay back govt. loans.

The only difference between Boeing and EADS is that EU govts are more open about the support they give EADS. $3.2 Billion in tax "support", and Japanese  govt. support of the 7E7 program is different how again?

 Tronsky

[-tronski-]

Originally posted by SunTracker
Will airliners chose the huge A380, or the fuel effecient, 250 seat Boeing Dreamliner, with a range of 9000 miles?

7E7 is more of a direct competitor to the A330

 Tronsky

[Halo]

(Quote)
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Originally posted by Halo

So far 139 A380s have been sold, mostly to government-backed airlines like Emirates in Dubai.
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Emirates was started with seed capital of US$10m, the single solitary time the airline has recieved money from the regal purse. It's also one of the most successful airlines in single solitary time the airline has recieved money from the regal purse. It's also one of the most successful airlines in the world with zero govt. support.

(Unquote)


Tricky juxaposition in the article.  Here's the exact quote:

"Airbus has sold 139 of the A380s, mostly to government-backed airlines.  It's largest customer is Emirates, a rapidly expanding state-owned carrier based in Dubai...."

[hawker238]

Originally posted by SunTracker
Will airliners chose the huge A380, or the fuel effecient, 250 seat Boeing Dreamliner, with a range of 9000 miles?

I'd go with the A380, that picture is just studmuffingy.

[Halo]

(Quote)

Re: Airbus 380 -- Another Concorde?

quote:
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Originally posted by Halo
Assembled in France from major parts coming from Germany, England, and Spain, the A380 requires a transporation network that includes tight squeezes through canals and narrow streets, including a three-day, mile-long truck convoy along 155 miles of small country roads, "traveling only at night and a maximum speed of 20 miles an hour."

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Do you think the 747 is produced totally on-site in Seattle? As I recall it has components shipped in from all over the globe.
Doesn't the rudder come from New Zealand? Or is the rudder not considered a major part?
__________________
(Unquote)

Many major enterprises like jumbo aircraft have parts made in many places and shipped to the final assembly point.  The Washington Post apparently dwells on this aspect of the A380 because of the exceptional challenge and expense of some of the component routing.

[rpm]

Originally posted by SunTracker
Will airliners chose the huge A380, or the fuel effecient, 250 seat Boeing Dreamliner, with a range of 9000 miles?

Boeing is building a Caravelle?

[Halo]

Caravelle looked like a DC-9 (MD-80), didn't it (engines in the back)?

[NUKE]

Have you guys heard about the big flying wing Boeing had been planning?

I saw some drawings awhile back. It supposedly would have a 1000 seat capacity and be 33% more effient than the AB380.

[Chairboy]

The 'Blended Wing Body', it was called.  It might still be built some day.  It's a unique solution to the problem of "How to move more passengers without redesigning all the current terminals and runways".

[mora]

Originally posted by Halo
Caravelle looked like a DC-9 (MD-80), didn't it (engines in the back)?

The DC-9 looked somewhat like the Caravelle, not the other way around.

[1K3]

Originally posted by Chairboy
The 'Blended Wing Body', it was called.  It might still be built some day.  It's a unique solution to the problem of "How to move more passengers without redesigning all the current terminals and runways".

are they ever gonna build that?

btw chaiboy, what part of LA do u live in, the Valley, N. hollywood, or W.hollywood?

[Chairboy]

Culver City, sort of.  I sold my home there and am living on a friends couch while I look for a new job.

[CMC Airboss]

Originally posted by Halo
So far 139 A380s have been sold, mostly to government-backed airlines like Emirates in Dubai.  

Airbus has received (fully refundable) downpayments for 139 airplanes.  Downpayments were as low as $500,000 US dollars. Some of these orders may become firm but most are contigent on the A380 meeting its weight, range, and performance goals.  They've publicly admitted to a serious weight problem which will affect payload, range, and ultimately seat-mile costs.

Just in general...
I have to laugh at Airbus' marketing a cruise ship in the sky to the ignorant public.  They've floated artist renditions of grand ballrooms, bars, waterfalls, and huge open spaces in some widely read periodicals.  I can assure folks that this airplane will be filled with wall to wall seating.  Don't go expecting in-flight shopping malls, bowling alleys, and movie theaters in any of the common air carrier's airplanes.  

"Now boading rows 110 through 120 on the upper deck and 140 through 150 on the lower deck..."

MiG

[Gh0stFT]

Originally posted by NUKE
Have you guys heard about the big flying wing Boeing had been planning?

I saw some drawings awhile back. It supposedly would have a 1000 seat capacity and be 33% more effient than the AB380.

what lenght of runway would you need to take off with 1000 seats?
the A380-F (freighter version) will need more then 3000meters
thats a problem today, the normal A380 (only passengers) will need aprox 2700meters and that fits for the main airports around the globe.

the drawing looks cool, would love to see such "Nurflügler" flying around.
But you know, between drawings & reality there is sometimes moire then a gap.

R
Gh0stFT

[cpxxx]

D) An already complicated system has further strains added by political concerns that decentralize every aspect of the aircraft's design, construction and assembly. Even worse, there are politicians who see this project as a European Statement. You'd hope that Europeans, as backwards as they are, could take a couple lessons from the past: the soviet missile program, the Concorde and Tupolev, that whole "Schoolteacher in Space" thing. Let business determine what's good business.

The Europeans might be backward but if they are then Boeing is too.

Take a look at this  from the official Boeing website.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/7e7/dev_team.html

Look at all those countries taking part in the 7E7's development.  Most the Airbus countries in fact. Even France. Yes even France. Shocking isn't it?

All those major parts coming from all over the world and assembled in Washington.  That make the three day 155 mile convoy seem very small potatoes indeed.

But you may also be pleased to know that no less than 50% of the A380 will be American made.  So much for it being a European statement.

I really don't know why the A380 and 7E7 are mentioned in the same breath all the time. They are fully aimed at different markets.  Good luck to both of them.  It's the nature of the aerospace business these days to be fully global. Something the Washington Post and a few others seem to fail to grasp.

At the end of the day the success or otherwise of both depends on whether they make money for their operators and whether they arrive in the right market conditions.