ACMs or Gunnery

[Zanth]

Originally posted by TexMurphy
If you can manouver your self into position for a unmissable shot then you are gonna down planes.

I usually have not much trouble getting on the 6 of most bad guys however with me (unfortunately) there is no such thing as an "unmissable shot".   I have totally lost count of times I am glued on a guy 200-400 and I run my stupid guns outta ammo.  If I could shoot I just maybe might almost be dangerous to someone else other than myself.

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Shane
acm... because you can always fly someone into the ground. and used properly acm will give you the multiple shot opportunities that poor gunnery will take to bring them down - or avoid someone else's better shooting.

of course, decent aim is very helpful. i'd rather have good acm with decent aim, than bad acm with fantastic aim. because what  good is aim if you can't get your nose on target?

Yes on ACM, but I found that if I don't bring someone down within 20 or 30 seconds, help usualy arrives (either friendly or enemy).  If the goal is to get the kill and stay alive, you need good ACM and good aim.  If you just want the kill, then ACM is good nuff.

[Urchin]

This is a good debate.  Personally, I'd go with gunnery (or aim) as being far more important than "acm", especially for your typical MA flyer.  

I personally think it is more important for everyone, but your "average" player in the MA doesn't engage without the odds being on his side, so good gunnery will ensure more kills and fewer assists.  

Most of the "aces" in AH that have "amazing aim" really don't.  For the sake of my ego, I'll just lump myself into that category and tell you why my hit percentage is high.  I usually take shots I almost literally cannot miss.  About the farthest I'll shoot is 400 yards, and that is rare.  Typically, I'm at 200 yards or closer.  At that kind of range it really doesn't matter to much what the other guy is doing (whether it is a deflection shot or not), I don't have to do to much in the way of leading.  

Another thing that helps in developing your aim is flying with the same gun package for a long time.  Leviathn has been flying the Spit 5 since dinosaurs walked the earth, so naturally he has a very good idea of how to hit different shots with the Hispano.  

I have horrible aim with the Hispano, because I'm more used to the MG151.  With the Hispano, I lead even though I really don't have to.

[nopoop]

Lol, what zanth said

[bozon]

Zanth said it right.
ACM is maybe more important for 1on1, when you have indefinit time to set up a nice shot from point blank. But even in this case, if you fly a 190 vs a spit, you can't saddle up for long. Usually, quick shots is all you gonna get.

Bozon

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by bozon
Zanth said it right.
ACM is maybe more important for 1on1, when you have indefinit time to set up a nice shot from point blank. But even in this case, if you fly a 190 vs a spit, you can't saddle up for long. Usually, quick shots is all you gonna get.

Bozon

Yes, that brings up an excellent point. Marksmanship is incredibly critical in every situation, in every plane vs. any plane in every type of engagement. Just being good at ACM's however, has limited value in situations where you are faced with an opponent in an aircraft that 'intrinsically' performs those ACM's more efficiently (ie: turning radii, roll-rate, sustained turn-rate, climb-rate). For example, a pilot in a Niki with even mediocre ACM ability can successfully outmanuever an opponent with vastly superior flying skill in a plane such as a P47D40 or Typhoon most of the time, all other factors being equal. If you are a great shot however, the significance of relative plane performance and individual pilot's ACM ability becomes minimal to almost meaningless, in terms of probable outcome, depending on the relative E-states of the aircraft in question.


This could be why folks like Levi, with obviously superior ACM ability, gravitate towards aircraft such as the Spit5, this minimizes the likelihood of an inferior pilot getting 'lucky' and outmanuevering them primarily by virtue of their plane's innately superior manuevering performance. I would even go so far as to make the gross generalization that pilots with alot of experience tend to fly the very nimble, slower planes if their ACM ability surpasses their gunnery ability and faster planes and/or planes with devastating weapon packages if their marksmanship ability surpasses their ACM ability. It just makes perfectly logical sense if you think about it.


Zazen

[thrila]

Han solo's view- Hokey ACM's, and gunnery are no match for a good horde at your side

and Lord Vader's- The ability of ACM is insignificant next to the power of the Horde.

[edge12674]

A very enjoyable thread to read.  

As several have mentioned, you have to include a "third" crucial skill, situational awareness, if you are looking for the "ace factor".  

There is also the definition a "successful kill" to consider.  Unlike the real world, being shot down after getting a kill is no big deal.  If the definition is find your target, kill it, and escape, then here is my priority list.

1) SA - Gotta know where to hunt while avoid being the hunted!
2) Gunnery - Firing solutions are fleeting and they have to be exploited to the fullest.
3) ACM - Because good flying never killed anyone!

[EN4CER]

ACM

Once you have maneuvered close enough to fire, at minimum range, 100 yards or less, aim is not that critical. At that moment you are no longer sight shooting.

“I liked the whole front of my windscreen to be full of the enemy aircraft when I fired”

Colonel Erich “Bubi” Hartmann GAF
World’s Leading Ace, Luftwaffe
352 Victories, WW-II

[Muddie]

If the guns were inaccurate, then all the aiming in the world wouldn't have helped.

Originally posted by Furball
Yes, but i dont think that applies here.

Von Richtofen's opponents did not get a big red icon above their head when he was approaching from 5k out (big red plane yes ) the sneak kill was far more common so gunnery was a big factor, plus the absolute innacuracy of first world war guns and lower rates of fire made aiming very important.

I dont think it applies to Aces High.

[Muddie]

You gotta open your eyes when you shoot dude .

Originally posted by Zanth
I usually have not much trouble getting on the 6 of most bad guys however with me (unfortunately) there is no such thing as an "unmissable shot".   I have totally lost count of times I am glued on a guy 200-400 and I run my stupid guns outta ammo.  If I could shoot I just maybe might almost be dangerous to someone else other than myself.

[bozon]

at minimum range, 100 yards or less, aim is not that critical.

you'd be suprised if you saw my gunnery...

at too close ranges, wing mounted guns become a big problem. I fly my jug with convergence set to 275 yards. when I was shooting at a c205 from ~100 yards the other day, I was hitting both tips of its wings...

Bozon

[Roscoroo]

Rings in .....

Im gonna have to say in a target rich enviroment .... SA is 1st and formost .

ACM  comes in second  (Unless ur a ho dolt) you have to get the angle for the shot and stay alive while doing this.  

gunnery is last even though it is very important if you want to land multiable kills all the time.

[Manedew]

gunnery and acm go hand in hand .. tryign to sperate the two doesn't make much sense .. just because we have two words doesn't mean they are two seperate things  

They are two parts of the same thing ......others said basicly the same thing .... but it seems most of you don't understand this

gunnery is actually contained within ACM .. it is a part of ACM

setting up a shot properly is key to getting kills.... this requires basic ACM ...

so the only answer can be ACM .... but it's a loaded question

[Slammin]

Originally posted by thrila
Han solo's view- Hokey ACM's, and gunnery are no match for a good horde at your side

and Lord Vader's- The ability of ACM is insignificant next to the power of the Horde.