Author Topic: Bomber Formations (Read 1525 times)

indy007 · « **Reply #30 on:** January 04, 2005, 08:13:55 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Delirium
The formations were added when the bombsite became complex, in an attempt to maintain the viability of the buff in AH.

From what I heard (I don't fly buffs) the bombsite is back to the simple mode, why not change the formations back too?

Forgot to mention, why the heck do you need a formation when all the hangers at the airfields are ALL lined up and packed in a small area?

Force multiplier. A B-24 with 8x1000 pounders attacking a small airfield needs to use 6 bombs to drop the 3 FH. A formation only needs 1 bomb per plane for the same effect, letting you drop 5 more times.

Look at Lanc's, what would you rather have, 14,000 pounds of explosives, or 42,000 pounds?

Also, attacking a lone B-17 from say, 5 o'clock high, puts you in the line of 5 .50 cals (2 on top turret, 2 on rear, 1 waist). Attacking a formation puts 15 .50cals on the same spot. That's why good gunners are so freaking dangerous.

lazs2 · « **Reply #31 on:** January 05, 2005, 08:01:13 AM »

no matter what... the bombers are gamey.. It wouldn't bother me if I never saw another one in the game.

lazs

KurtVW · « **Reply #32 on:** January 05, 2005, 08:12:41 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
no matter what... the bombers are gamey.. It wouldn't bother me if I never saw another one in the game.

lazs

Ridiculous..

I can see arguing for or versus formations, but removing bombers altogether because they are 'gamey'?

I'm pretty sure my Grandfather-in-law didn't think it was gamey.. In 1944 when he was a B-17 squadron commander... When the ME410 with the 40mm nose cannon knocked a big freakin hole in his starboard wing...

But hey, if Laz says their gamey and don't represent the war, and that the war was just a big furball.. Well heck, who are we to argue with him?

Ugh...

Anyhoooo

I think formations should stay because they represent the true balance of bombers to fighters. Lets not forget that bombers would go up by the hundreds, fighters would come up by the dozens.. Not the other way around.

Most WWII bombers were killed by Flak, not by fighters.

And lastly, the escorts were charged with keeping the fighters away from the formations... They didn't fight within the formation. The bombers were expected to take care of anything that got past the screen. And part of that tactic was the bomber box and that is the formation we see in AH.

Anyone who says they should be removed is simply ticked off because he can't get 3 free kills. As it turns out, flying into a group of B17s is SUPPOSED to be dangerous.

Engine · « **Reply #33 on:** January 05, 2005, 09:43:47 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by 2stony
If this guy thinks its so easy eggin targets with a formation, try taking one against a CV at low level. The ack is murder, and if there's any fighter cover, survival is almost impossible.

Gee, maybe because low-level buff CV runs aren't supposed to be easy. Anytime I see some suicide Lanc dweeb diving on a CV from his amazing starting alt of 4k, I know it's only a matter of time, because that same dweeb will get 3 other dweebs to do it over, and over, and over, and over.

I got the CV, and only died 14 times! WOOOOOO [insert country here] OWNZ!

FiLtH · « **Reply #34 on:** January 05, 2005, 10:04:13 AM »

I dont wanna see bombers perked. The rtb success rate of fighters is better than bombers (for me anyways). When I go out in a bomber I make it to target about 1/2 the time, but only rtb after drop about 1/8 the time. Yes I take alot of em with me but would I want to "buy" those rides?

Id hate to think I was spending perk points every flight knowing there was a very good chance Id lose them to a couple of unperked La7s.

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #35 on:** January 05, 2005, 10:22:13 AM »

Single bombers wouldn't be perked. Only the formations.

999000 · « **Reply #36 on:** January 05, 2005, 12:17:48 PM »

I think we need to take up a collection for these bomber dweeds as they are called........ so we can put them up in some home and get rid of them...I'm tired of bomber guys wrecking my game......I have even seen these Bomber guys land B17's on CV's rearm and take off again........this nonsence has to stop!!!:
to all you...be happy Life is Short.

PS. I think Blimps Should replace bombers in this game...And yes they should not be formations..and yes give guys like tatertot who are good with a gun a pistol in the basket to defend himself.... or maybe just a sling shot!

indy007 · « **Reply #37 on:** January 05, 2005, 12:30:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by 999000
I think we need to take up a collection for these bomber dweeds as they are called........ so we can put them up in some home and get rid of them...I'm tired of bomber guys wrecking my game......I have even seen these Bomber guys land B17's on CV's rearm and take off again........this nonsence has to stop!!!:
to all you...be happy Life is Short.

PS. I think Blimps Should replace bombers in this game...And yes they should not be formations..and yes give guys like tatertot who are good with a gun a pistol in the basket to defend himself.... or maybe just a sling shot!

~~Right on but I wouldn't want a pistol, or a slingshot. I want a flock of birds I can hurl into the path of fighters.~~

rshubert · « **Reply #38 on:** January 05, 2005, 12:32:33 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by 999000
I think we need to take up a collection for these bomber dweeds as they are called........ so we can put them up in some home and get rid of them...I'm tired of bomber guys wrecking my game......I have even seen these Bomber guys land B17's on CV's rearm and take off again........this nonsence has to stop!!!:
to all you...be happy Life is Short.

PS. I think Blimps Should replace bombers in this game...And yes they should not be formations..and yes give guys like tatertot who are good with a gun a pistol in the basket to defend himself.... or maybe just a sling shot!

i think we should just perk 999000. That would solve the whole issue.

~~shubie~~

6GunUSMC · « **Reply #39 on:** January 05, 2005, 12:53:09 PM »

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Originally posted by ghi
Noo, don't perk formations, let them have , 5-10 drones, my best fun in AH2 is shooting dweebs bombers in 109G10

GHI is dead on target with this... He has killed some of my bombers, but I have nailed him too!

If I am not flying bombers, I am looking for bombers to kill. Remember this fellas... for every formation you see thats one less LA7 vulching you on takeoff.

jpeg · « **Reply #40 on:** January 05, 2005, 01:25:04 PM »

I don't agree with this at all.

Bombers are not that hard to kill, look at my stats for last tour, I've killed my fair share of bombers and haven't been killed by a bomber even once.

And why complain about low level bombers?! They're easier to kill!

I do agree about stopping divebombing lancs,b17s,b24s and b26s. They should only be able to drop bombs from the F6 view (which would cause to plane to go level).

HTC has already stated in another thread that he agrees with spreading out the hangers so I'm sure the airfields will get redisgned soon or at least new maps will have different layouts. Just a matter of time till the new terrain editor comes out.

ghi · « **Reply #41 on:** January 05, 2005, 01:33:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by 6GunUSMC
GHI is dead on target with this... He has killed some of my bombers, but I have nailed him too!

hehehe, i shoot you down, you shoot me down, soo we both have fun ,that's the most important:)

Zaphod · « **Reply #42 on:** January 05, 2005, 01:52:48 PM »

I'm with Jpeg on this. Just stop the divebombing bombers. That to me is the only gamey thing about the bombers in AH.

Formations were included as I understand it to make up for the more difficult calibration procedure. I really think that the current calibration is difficult enough to warrant formations. Although it is much easier than before it's not the "put crosshairs on target and punch button for 100% hits" like the original model. In my opinion it's ok to require a little bit of skill to successfully achieve goals in this game.

I think divebombing bombers started as a result of people not willing to learn how to properly calibrate with the model we had just prior to this. I would like to see bombers only dropping from the bombsite. This would solve the divebombing bomber problem.

I don't really have a problem with low level bomber formations. They can be fun to fly (lots of nmes to shoot at) and increase bomb hit probability. So basically you are trading the probability of making it to target with the probability of hitting your target. They are also pretty easy to kill so have at it.

Yes I fly bombers, although the vast majority of my time is spent in fighters. I prefer mid-alt level runs for accuracy and survivability so maybe I am just biased.

I also think that shooting down bombers is actually not very hard as long as you are patient. 95% of the time I get popped by a bomber it's because I am impatient and don't take the time to position myself for a safe and accurate pass on the formation.

Zaphod

LYNX · « **Reply #43 on:** January 05, 2005, 03:05:24 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by indy007
Force multiplier. A B-24 with 8x1000 pounders attacking a small airfield needs to use 6 bombs to drop the 3 FH. A formation only needs 1 bomb per plane for the same effect, letting you drop 5 more times.

Look at Lanc's, what would you rather have, 14,000 pounds of explosives, or 42,000 pounds?

Also, attacking a lone B-17 from say, 5 o'clock high, puts you in the line of 5 .50 cals (2 on top turret, 2 on rear, 1 waist). Attacking a formation puts 15 .50cals on the same spot. That's why good gunners are so freaking dangerous.

Firstly, assuming the bomber has a gunner only 2 sets of guns can be fired at anyone time. 1 set by the pilot the other set by the "freakin dangerous gunner". Usually there isn't a gunner. It's just the pilot out of his seat or bomb site flying LEVEL and STRAIGHT.....what more do you want.

As for killing bombers it's so easy so long as you know how to do it and creeping up on the gunner/s isn't how to do it.

LYNX.....~SOB~

KurtVW · « **Reply #44 on:** January 05, 2005, 07:07:51 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by LYNX

As for killing bombers it's so easy so long as you know how to do it and creeping up on the gunner/s isn't how to do it.

LYNX.....~SOB~

Don't tell them that!

I get lots of kills from the gunner seat because people climb up right on my six, with no airspeed. As soon as they close 800 Bang bang boom. and they either pop or ride the long slow spiral to the water.

As far as flying straight and level while shooting.. Well... Maybe the guys who don't have pedals on the floor do that, but I can tell you I'll steer the hell out of my flight and shoot at you as well. I just can't go up or down.

I have a very high rate of success defending my flight... And I have equal success killing bombers from my fighter birds.

If you understand how to attack, then you automatically know how to defend.

The only guys who are likely to get a kill on me in a bomber are the guys who know how to do the attack - fast slashing attacks from high quartering positions. Its hard for any skilled gunner to defend against. Just don't get greedy and settle in astern the formation, because you'll most likely die before the flight does. Unless you're in a CHOG or something like that... Those babies are da chit!