Another hornets nest

[Straiga]

Is it me or does the B-24 have to roll aileron in on takeoff I guess to conter prop torque. 4 engines null the torque in the airframe.

All 4 engines are off the longitudnal center of the airframe torque is not a factor. I cant see 4 engines trying to roll over an airplane, maybe P-factor or Yaw but not torque. But P-factor is Yaw what am I saying.

Do you see my point.

OK hornets have at it.


Straiga

[GScholz]

Multiple engines do not counter torque. Some of the torque is absorbed by the airframe, but not all.

[Straiga]

Hey GScholz, do you have any idea why the controls show right aileron on takeoff and show right aileron in straight and level flight. Is this a glitch or more AH physics.

Hey did you read my post for real pilots?

Straiga

[GScholz]

Yes I did, and I held similar views some time ago. I was however proven wrong. I suggest you read the following threads before continuing yours.


http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=95026

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=95079



As for the B-24 FM ... I have not yet had the pleasure of flying that plane since I've been on "vacation" from AH for some time now. However I think you will find that all multiengine aircraft in AH does suffer from the effects of torque ... with the notable exception of the P-38, which had counter-rotating props and cranks.

Also AFAIK modern turbo-props do not generate torque like piston engines do since they do not "push" on the engine block to turn the prop like pistons do, but simply blow air through a set of turbines. The props still generate prop wash though.

[Straiga]

GScholz. I dont see anywhere or any post that proved you wrong.
I total agree with your opion. Did you read the tail plane icing sight.

Straiga

[GScholz]

No I did not read it. I only have time for a short post before I must go.

The tail plane can create lift and still keep the plane stable. The NACA (or was it NASA) documents HiTech showed me in one of those threads proved that.

It then becomes quite clear that if the tail plane is removed the nose will pitch up unless all the weight the tail plane supported also is removed. These planes were "ass heavy", and you can easily see that if you take a closer look at some of these planes. The P-39 series is a prime example. It even had the engine mounted behind the wing. Clearly (or at least intuitively) one can see that the tails of these aircraft had to carry some weight.

[Straiga]

Looks to me like the engine sits in the mid range CG and is mounted low also. I guess the gas in the wings and nose also. I dont think it is to much tail heavy either.

Straiga

[hitech]

Is it me or does the B-24 have to roll aileron in on takeoff I guess to conter prop torque. 4 engines null the torque in the airframe.

All 4 engines are off the longitudnal center of the airframe torque is not a factor. I cant see 4 engines trying to roll over an airplane, maybe P-factor or Yaw but not torque. But P-factor is Yaw what am I saying.

Yep I see your point, you have never had a physics class.

Because absolutly everything you state about torque in this post is incorect.

Moving the engine out on the wing has absolutly no effect on the torque aplied to the plane. It dosn't change even 1 foot/lb.

HiTech

[Straiga]

OOOHHH TESTY!

Yes your right I have never had an AHII physics class Im not into fiction.

Im in a physics class every day flying for a living.

So explain why right aileron is used on take off in a four engine bomber when you dont need to. Explain youself I would like to hear this.

I guess you dont have a multi-engine rating either.

Straiga

[TimRas]

If, in four engined plane, two propellers rotate clockwise and other two counterclockwise, then torque is cancelled and aileron input should be not needed. If all props rotate in the same direction, then the total torque is four times the torque of one engine. That the engines are offset from the center axis of the plane is irrelevant.

[Straiga]

Lets start at the Number 1 engine. The engine sits on the pilots side all the way out on the wing. Prop rotation clockwise the helical prop downwash hits the top and right side of the wing and under the wing on the left side. Prop torque rolling moment to the right the resultant torque moment to the left.
 Rolling moment is reduced to a yaw-wise torque since the engine does not lie in the center line rolling axes. This is the same for all the engines.

Plus on takeoff using differential power you dont even to need rudder on takeoff.

The B-17 time I have, did not require ailerons on takeoff or climb out.

I bet you guys will say also that if you lose 1 out of 4 engines you only lose a 1/4 of your total power output or in a twin engine you would lose half your power.  WRONG!

Straiga

[SunTracker]

In real life, none of the 4 engines had exactly the same rpm.  Imperfections in the prop and the airframe also influenced yaw and roll.

[jigsaw]

Originally posted by Straiga

I bet you guys will say also that if you lose 1 out of 4 engines you only lose a 1/4 of your total power output or in a twin engine you would lose half your power.  WRONG!

Straiga

80% loss in a twin.  I've never seen the power/speed ratings for a quad, so can't comment.

[Straiga]

You got it Jigsaw

4 engines you lose two its about 70 to 80% loss

[Seeker]

Lancaster pilots had to use full right rudder on an overloaded takeoff to counter torque.

That's got four engines...