Author Topic: Here they are: AH weapons lethality test data  (Read 1589 times)

Offline Dinger

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Here they are: AH weapons lethality test data
« on: May 15, 2000, 07:22:00 AM »
Conditions:
My system: Celery 333@415 64k ram, Asus MB (BX chipset P2B-L or something) Creative TNT2 M16 (or whatever the cheapo slow vid memory is) 32 k Vram.

Offline, default setup, ammomultiplier of 10, ProtectObject off.
All weapons tested against a hangar

From initial tests with the 4x.50 cal of the M16, it appeared that there was no difference between the damage of a fighter hangar and a bomber hangar; therefore, no distinction is made.  Moreover, differences in range to target did not seem to affect the damage results.  Thus, ranges varied according to the test, although we did try to get as close to the hangar as possible.  In the process of trying to do so, the lives of many virtual test pilots were lost.  It is to them that we dedicate this post.

Complicating Matters:
Whether known or not, there is a serious bug in collision detection, probably FR-related.  In some situations, some shots (or even rockets) would go straight through the object being fired at.  This condition appeared to be far worse when firing in short bursts than when shooting a continuous stream. (For example, 370-380 rounds from the Type 99-2 on the N1k knocks down a hangar consistently, provided the "Firehose" method of shooting is employed.  Firing in short bursts caused this number to go up to 500 and beyond).
Therefore, with the cannon and gun tests, I parked the aircraft so that its line of fire would traverse two parts of the hangar.  I fired in continuous streams and counted the approximate number of rounds fired when the hangar fell.  All numbers, therefore, are approximate

Additionally, there is a bug in the hangars' hit maps that causes hit flashes to appear in different places.

Furthermore, while I convert the data below into the equivalent in pounds of bombs (on the belief that 3000 lbs is the damage that hangars take), what little evidence I have suggests that the ratio of bomb/gun damage is not the same for hangars and other structures; of course, my modest test data could very well suffer from an even more acute "lost round" problem on the other structures.

I don't have the ROF data handy; that and ammo load are the keys to filling out these tables and computing relative lethalities.

So here it is:

Weapon     Platform  Hngr Hits    Lethality.
100 lb.bomb  B17        30        100
76mm HE      Panzer     20        150
21 Cm WGr    FW190      18        167
             109G10     18*
HVAR 5"      P38-L      20        150
3.5" Rock    Typhoon    21        143
----
Mk108 30mm   109G6      140        21.4
HSMk2 20mm   P-38L      345         8.7
             F4U-1C
99mk2 20mm   N1K        375         8.0
ShVAK 20mm   La-5FN     400         7.5
151   20mm   109F4      400         7.5
---
M2    .50c   M16        1250        2.4
             P-38L
Breda 12.7   c.202      1600        1.9
131   12.7   109G6      2600        1.2
---
Brwn. .303   Spit-Vb    5000         .6
MG17  7.9    109F4      5000         .6


*The 109G series does not appear to respond to .salvo settings, and always fires the WGr mortars in pairs.

Feel free to go and verify the results, correct any errors, straighten up the table or post it somewhere (hint: edit the text, and copy it as formatted for fixed fonts).  Just let me know (and give me credit if you can)

Dinger
4^ Stormo CT.

[This message has been edited by Dinger (edited 05-15-2000).]

Offline Lephturn

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Here they are: AH weapons lethality test data
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2000, 10:50:00 AM »
Did you by any chance have V-Synch disabled?
That has been a suspected cause of "rubber bullet" syndrome... just wondering.

Also... why no data for the HogC?  Or am I reading that wrong?


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"MY P-47 is a pretty good ship
And she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip
I was thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip
Always got me through so far
Well they can ship me all over this great big world
But I'll never find nothing like my North End girl
I'm taking her home with me one day, sir
Soon as we win this war"
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[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 05-15-2000).]

Offline Kieren

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Here they are: AH weapons lethality test data
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2000, 11:23:00 AM »
So, you're saying V-Sync "on" or "off" for best gameplay?

Offline Dinger

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Here they are: AH weapons lethality test data
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2000, 11:26:00 AM »
Er, that's just indicating that I tested the HS on both the P38 and the Hog-C.  No appreciable difference according to A/C in round per round lethality was found on any of the weapons for which I tried more than one platform.

I'll look at enabling vsync, but that strikes me as an odd solution.

Offline Saintaw

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Here they are: AH weapons lethality test data
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2000, 11:27:00 AM »
I've read somewhere that it should be OFF, but I can't seem to find the option on my display settings  

Someone can please point me how to where that is ?
Saw
Dirty, nasty furriner.

Offline StSanta

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Here they are: AH weapons lethality test data
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2000, 03:21:00 PM »
<points>

 



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Offline Duckwing6

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Here they are: AH weapons lethality test data
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2000, 03:43:00 AM »
here here i want to know that too ...

Offline LLv34_Camouflage

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Here they are: AH weapons lethality test data
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2000, 05:27:00 AM »
Control Panel - Display Settings - Advanced ->

It is somewhere there, depending on your video card.  

You might also want to get one of the DirectX tweak softwares or video card control panels which let you tweak your hardware.  A good place to look for (3dfx) tweak programs is http://www.voodooextreme.com

Hope this helps!

Camo

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Offline Lephturn

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Here they are: AH weapons lethality test data
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2000, 11:29:00 AM »
DO NOT Disable V-Synch.  By default it will be enabled.  V-Synch means that your video card waits to draw a frame until your your monitor is ready to refresh the screen.  If you disable V-Synch your video card will draw the frames regardless of whether or not it is "synchronized" with your monitor refresh, essentially drawing some frames or parts of them that will never actually be seen.  Disabling V-Synch is mostly used to benchmark video cards, otherwise the scores all come out the same, equal to your refresh rate.    Disabling v-synch can give you a small FR bonus, but it's not worth it IMHO.  Because of how the hit detection works, I suspect strongly that by disabling V-Synch your FE may not "detect" hits you get.  Hence rubber bullets.

If you have not tweaked your V-synch it will be enabled, so you can leave it alone.  If you have messed with it, you should go back and set it to ENABLED, at least when playing AH.

Really, other than the framerate number, what good can it do to have your video card draw frames your monitor won't show?  There is some small benefit from your card not having to wait for synchronization, but it's a small gain IMHO and not worth it.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs
Visit Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH news, resources, and training data.
 http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/
 

"MY P-47 is a pretty good ship
And she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip
I was thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip
Always got me through so far
Well they can ship me all over this great big world
But I'll never find nothing like my North End girl
I'm taking her home with me one day, sir
Soon as we win this war"
 - Steve Earl

[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 05-16-2000).]

Offline bloom25

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Here they are: AH weapons lethality test data
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2000, 08:20:00 PM »
Absolutely DO NOT disable V-sync.  This causes many problems and does not really increase your framerate when you think about it.  What you are doing is telling your video card to ignore the refresh rate of your monitor and render as many frames as it can.  The problem is that your monitor is refreshing at a much slower rate, so you never see all of these frames.  This can have a strange affect on gunnery, so keep v-sync on.



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funked

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Here they are: AH weapons lethality test data
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2000, 03:23:00 AM »
Dinger your data suggests that some of the louder whining on this board has no basis in fact.


Offline LLv34_Camouflage

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Here they are: AH weapons lethality test data
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2000, 03:48:00 AM »
This test only takes into account the "hitting power" of the round. It doesn't portrait the total lethality of the weapon, which is highly dependant of rate of fire, for example. And that makes this test so good, because it leaves less room for assumptions!  

Knowing this, especially the .50/12.7 mg test results are pretty interesting:

"M2 .50c M16 1250 2.4
P-38L
Breda 12.7 c.202 1600 1.9
131 12.7 109G6 2600 1.2
"

The american mg packs TWICE has as much punch as the german mg?  Is there a reason for this?  Is the round twice as heavy, or does the .50 perhaps have double the muzzle velocity?

Camo
CO, Lentolaivue 34
Brewster's in AH!
"How about the power to kill a Yak from 200 yards away - with mind bullets!"

Offline Nashwan

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Here they are: AH weapons lethality test data
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2000, 04:35:00 AM »
The Browning fires a 48.5g round at 870m/s
The Mg131 fires a 34.6g round at 730m/s
I make that 1.99 times as much energy. The MG131 has a higher rate of fire, but when you take synchronisation into account, the final energy figures show the Browning delivers 1.95 times as much energy.
Why does the HVAR cause more damage than the 3.5" rocket? From what I can find, the 3.5" hada slightly larger warhead.

[This message has been edited by Nashwan (edited 05-17-2000).]

Offline Dinger

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Here they are: AH weapons lethality test data
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2000, 07:19:00 AM »
Yeah, I left out the ROF, Muzzle Velocity and ammo load data because A. I don't have it and B. I reckoned someone else could do that.  C. I'm lazy.
Anyway, About vsync: My understanding is that you would think that enabling vsync makes it run as fast as the screen can put out, but for some reason, it doesn't (Gets caught up waiting for one frame and misses the next?).  Anyway, I tested again with vsync enabled, and I got the same results with respect to missing rounds:
Again, it takes ca. 140 mk 108 rounds to destroy a hangar, if you fire them all in one burst.  If, on the other hand, you rapidly tap the fire button, releasing 2-, 3- and 4-round bursts, on my machine you need around  170 rounds.  The lesson?  Spray-n-Pray.  Go the whole nine yards.

Offline Hooligan

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Here they are: AH weapons lethality test data
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2000, 08:51:00 AM »
Gosh I hate to be left out of this kind of stuff so I will measure some rates of fire.  Here's the first few.

.50 M2 800
Hispano II 650
Mg151 20mm 700
Mg151 Syncronized 625

I'll try to get the rest today.

Hooligan