Hordes!

[Skydancer]

Maybe I'm just not getting the picture but all the complaining I read about "hordes" seems a bit daft!

I think the reason people gravitate toward each other and play one big battle is that it is little fun flying around spending hours looking for an enemy in a sector that is relatively empty.
Seems like common sense to me to go where the action is.  I mean if you only play for an hour or so at a time like me then why would you want to go to where the action isn't.

One thing I would like to see is massed bombing raids. I mean big bomber streams.

Can't we just quit moaning about the horde thing.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Skydancer
Maybe I'm just not getting the picture but all the complaining I read about "hordes" seems a bit daft!

I think the reason people gravitate toward each other and play one big battle is that it is little fun flying around spending hours looking for an enemy in a sector that is relatively empty.
Seems like common sense to me to go where the action is.  I mean if you only play for an hour or so at a time like me then why would you want to go to where the action isn't.

One thing I would like to see is massed bombing raids. I mean big bomber streams.

Can't we just quit moaning about the horde thing.

Hordes attacking other hordes is very realistic for WWII. That most can agree upon. THe enemy sends forth a force, you in turn counter that force, multi-strata furball ensues. What people have a problem with is the 'roving horde', that is the horde that seeks to overwhelm an area that is largely undefended. When countered that 'roving horde' does not stand and fight and create a furball. It picks up it's toys goes to some other undefended area and starts anew. That is what is unrealistic and 'un-fun'. It's NON-fighting, it's cowardly, it's lame.

Zazen

[thrila]

There is no action where the horde is present.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Skydancer

One thing I would like to see is massed bombing raids. I mean big bomber streams.

 

 
  So I take it by this statement you have your game forums mixed up perhaps? If you are talking about AH here I would highly reccomend you get to an eye doctor as fast as possible.

[humble]

The problem is simple....the horde doesn't ride to the sound of the guns.

Look at the DAR bars....you'll see your horde with very little opposition...and 2 sectors away will be the "barbarian horde" with equally scant opposition....so you have three choices. Go join your numnuts....go fight their numnuts or go in search of another guy who wants to actually mix it up...

[Roscoroo]

solution....

Up Spittoony  .. fly to hoard (or largest red dar bar)

Kill as many as possiable .. until ammo is exhausted or killed ...


rinse ....


repeat ...

[A_Clown]

Zazen13, thrilla, and humble.

[jamusta]

Is he refering to my whines about the horde?

[Zaphod]

Originally posted by Roscoroo
solution....

Up Spittoony  .. fly to hoard (or largest red dar bar)

Kill as many as possiable .. until ammo is exhausted or killed ...


rinse ....


repeat ...

I have been doing just that for the past few times I have been on.  You know what..........it's been pretty fun lol.

Zaphod (rookie spitdweeb)

[Skydancer]

I am I think Jamusta

Maybe the game needs a bit of development in the type of arenas etc. The MA doesn't seem to be working so well anymore from what I read.

Maybe there should be a fighters only dogfighting arena, for furballers and freinds, and a more strat based arena, maybe with fewer but more varied tgtsand plane sets rolling historicaly to match fighters etc up or restricted depending on which country you fly for.

I just think the whole Horde thing is a bit of a red Herring and is only happening because of the way the MA is designed. Change the MA and you may just see less of what you seem to be concered about.

Failing that lets givethe CT a shout. I only ever see about 12 people in there. If there were 50-100 it might be worth joining. As it is I think Hitech realy needs to shake up the arenas and make some changes. We have enough skins now. Lets havbe some real change!

[TexMurphy]

I usually tend to log on for an hour or so before work (8amish CET) and a few hours after work. These are the best hours to play imho.

Number of online players is around 100-170. There arnt many big hoard fights but fights are still easy to find. The fights one finds is usually about 2-6 players on each side.

Its great because 70% of he kills during these times are generated though actually dogfighting the enemy. The problem I have with the hoards is that the kills come from sneakin up on people and taking supprice shots, same way you get killed by someone sneakin up on you.

Hoards are thougher on the SA but easier on the flying skills.

Dont get me wrong SA is an extreamly important pilot skill, if not the most important. Just that I like it a bit better when I can actually battle it out with the same enemy for quite some time before the kill shot lands.

Tex

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Skydancer

I just think the whole Horde thing is a bit of a red Herring and is only happening because of the way the MA is designed. Change the MA and you may just see less of what you seem to be concered about.
 

  The MA has a little bit of everything for everybody, no matter what your priorities or how you get your kicks. Some things have been changed such as amount of fuel that can be porked, enlarging of towns, etc. Looking back now, I think this was a mistake because it just produced a much larger problem than what it was intended for.
  When you do a lot of changes to the system itself, it is just a matter of time before someone catchs on and does the ole loophole routine around the fix and creates another problem.
  HT can only do so much here. What it boils down to is the players. Until the players discuss and point out such things as these they will not change. Usualy the players rally in the end on a known problem and change things themselves. I think this will play out in the same fashion.
  Log on sometime in the early morning hours U.S. Central time if possible. What you will find is the MA at it`s finest. Furballers, straters, GVers, CV Ops enthusiasts are all doing thier thing and it promotes some great gameplay for all involved. This is not practical for most. I realize this, but the point I am making here is at that time you can see what the MA is really like and how it can be.
  I love the attack and base capture, but I`ll be danged if I see any fun out of running 2 or more dar bars to a small field, taking everything down then just hanging out waiting for the goon to get there. It just stops gameplay for everyone in that area.
  The MA can accomodate the players at primetime, but a lot of the players are refusing to accomodate the MA. That`s the problem, not the systems fault.
  I think, maybe, when TOD is released it will give box gamers an alternative to go to.  I cetainly hope so. I also believe then , in the MA, we will stop being a test area for things that belong in TOD and maybe a little normality will return.

[TexMurphy]

Im a little bit worried about the "ToD will solve all our problems" attitude.

What Im worried about is that this will bring up extream expectations on ToD. Heck I have very high expectations on it as well. But viewing it as the next gift from god and the biggest thing since slized bread is a bit dangerous.

Ive seen players who frow upon base taking and who want more "respectable dog fights" look upon ToD as the saviour.

Dont kid your selfs ToD will be extreamly competetive. Mission success will be the ultimate goal of that game. Surviving the engagement will be at least as important as getting a fight. Fights will not always be ballanced and hence retreat will be the tactically correct choise in quite a few situations.

Mission success and death will be two very important factors. Kills a much less important factor.

So personally I think the players who look to ToD to bring em evenly matched dogfights where pilots never ever are timmid are laregly mistaken.

What ToD will bring though is battles that are much more evenly spread out over the map. You will see players spread out over the map because players cant jump the bandwaggon. But still there will be "hoards" as some missions will most likely generate big raids.

Also what ToD will do is it will generate counter missions for each mission which means that you will always face some sort of resistance. There wount be entire squads hiding in the corner of the map boosting their stats on unprotected targets.

Imho the most important thing ToD will bring is much more war immersion. But this as well wount be liked by all players as you will be restricted to certain planes. You wount always be in your favorite ride.

ToD will be a totally new ball game. Some people will like it. Some people wount. Some people will like parts of it and hate other parts. Some people will whine about it. But how much you as an individual like it or not is very much up to your expectations. You expect ToD to be somethin it aint you will be disapointed. You expect ToD to achive something it never ment to achive you will be disapointed.

Tex

[rshubert]

Originally posted by Zazen13
Hordes attacking other hordes is very realistic for WWII. That most can agree upon. THe enemy sends forth a force, you in turn counter that force, multi-strata furball ensues. What people have a problem with is the 'roving horde', that is the horde that seeks to overwhelm an area that is largely undefended. When countered that 'roving horde' does not stand and fight and create a furball. It picks up it's toys goes to some other undefended area and starts anew. That is what is unrealistic and 'un-fun'. It's NON-fighting, it's cowardly, it's lame.

Zazen

Bullsheeite call!

In reality, until 8th AAF decided to go after the luftwaffe, everything that could be done TO AVOID CONTACT with enemy fighters was done.  Diversionary raids, sneaky stuff, chaff drops...you name it.  The primary concept of mobile 20th century warfare is maneuver and "hit 'em where they ain't".

Look at the numbers, fellas.  We kill more pilots in this game in a typical week than have died in all the wars of the 20th century.

[Charon]

In reality, until 8th AAF decided to go after the Luftwaffe, everything that could be done TO AVOID CONTACT with enemy fighters was done. Diversionary raids, sneaky stuff, chaff drops...you name it. The primary concept of mobile 20th century warfare is maneuver and "hit 'em where they ain't".

[edit for lack of coffee]

In here attrition is not modeled so it's different. I would be a stong proponet of horde tactics and you would find me at the tail end of the largest horde around if I had to put a pistol in my mouth and pull the trigger the first time I got shot down. But since this is a game I prefer not to emulate offline play.

Charon