Author Topic: Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania  (Read 5692 times)

Offline Elfie

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #240 on: January 16, 2005, 02:11:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
Name one.



I can name one.....the absolute BEST kept secret of the US Army over the last 50 years......depleted uranium penetrators on the armor piercing rounds for the M-60 and M-1 tanks.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Elfie

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #241 on: January 16, 2005, 02:12:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by genozaur
Elfie, don't behave like a child.
Just tell us a little bit of your secret.
We won't tell anybody else.
C'mon, Elfie ! ;)


I cant think of any secrets I am keeping Geno.....I spilled the beans on every secret :(
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Mini D

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #242 on: January 16, 2005, 02:19:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie
I can name one.....the absolute BEST kept secret of the US Army over the last 50 years......depleted uranium penetrators on the armor piercing rounds for the M-60 and M-1 tanks.
You should read Jane's Almanac a bit more often.  You confuse "keeping a secret" with "became news after..."

Come on... just one secret.  Not something that simply wasn't in the news... something that was actually kept from the news then revealed by the military later.  Hell.. i knew about depleted uranium over 20 years ago... and that's only because I had a definate interest in the subject then.  The information was out there, is out there and will always be out there.

Offline Elfie

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #243 on: January 16, 2005, 02:24:39 PM »
Everything that I read prior to Gulf War 1 was that the armor piercing rounds for the M-1 and M-60 tanks were made from tungsten steel. It wasnt until GW1 when Iraqi tanks were being blown to bits by American tanks that someone found out there were traces of radiation in the destroyed Iraqi tanks. After that the Army admitted the penetrators were not in fact tungsten steel but depleted uranium.  At least that was information that I found..../shrug

At least I tryed to answer the question :D
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Mini D

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #244 on: January 16, 2005, 02:57:41 PM »
In 1970something the A-10 was introduced.  What was the main selling point of this aircraft?  What made it a tank buster?

Somehow, someone decided to put depleted uranium rounds into an aircraft bullet just out of the blue?

Offline genozaur

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #245 on: January 16, 2005, 03:11:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
Name one.


Can I name two, pleeease?

The first is the US and New Zealand's governments and military violating the anti-nuclear status of New Zealand :

http://www.investigatemagazine.com/busted_June_2000.htm

The second is the Britain's nuclear research secret (mid 1930s - Feb.26,1952) :

http://commkey.net/fussichen/otdatom.htm

Offline Holden McGroin

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #246 on: January 16, 2005, 03:16:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by genozaur
Can I name two, pleeease?


Boy the second one is still a secret.

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Offline Mini D

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #247 on: January 16, 2005, 03:31:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by genozaur
The first is the US and New Zealand's governments and military violating the anti-nuclear status of New Zealand :

http://www.investigatemagazine.com/busted_June_2000.htm
And how was this kept secret?

They're nuclear submarines, one of the most stealthy inventions of modern times... and they were seen.

The media broke the story because the Military told them or because it was simply something that was impossible to keep secret?

Come now... you said there were 50 year old secrets revealed by the military.  Share please.  Not the military being "caught".  That's not keeping a secret.
Quote
The second is the Britain's nuclear research secret (mid 1930s - Feb.26,1952) :

http://commkey.net/fussichen/otdatom.htm
that link doesn't work, though I give you kudos on stretching this to be world militaries.  Not enough examples of the U.S. military?  Let me refresh your memory... if you're forgetting exactly what you said:
Quote
There are plenty of examples (the USA including) when the military secrets are kept for several decades an even longer than that.
Sorry, I can't tell you about the secrets that died together with the people who knew them.
All you've posted so far are situations that weren't kept secret very well at all.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #248 on: January 16, 2005, 03:40:32 PM »
MiniD why?

Offline Elfie

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #249 on: January 16, 2005, 03:43:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
In 1970something the A-10 was introduced.  What was the main selling point of this aircraft?  What made it a tank buster?

Somehow, someone decided to put depleted uranium rounds into an aircraft bullet just out of the blue?


While in the USAF as a weapons loader/mechanic I knew about the depleted uranium projectiles loaded on the A-10, I did not however know about the depleted uranium rounds used by our tanks.


*edit* I knew about the A-10's main selling point as a tank buster (it's 30mm cannon firing depleted uranium projectiles). Iirc the USAF staged a *show* for some skeptical congressmen. An A-10 loaded with Maverick missiles and it's gun demolished several tanks on a range, duly impressing the congressmen.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2005, 03:48:22 PM by Elfie »
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Rino

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #250 on: January 16, 2005, 04:03:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by indy007
A twin-engine F-16 with a radical new tail design. Neat. No wonder the person couldn't find any pictures of them, I couldn't find one on the internet either. For that matter, I can't really think of any combat aircraft in our inventory that match the eyewitness description. So, in an emergency, someone scrambled an all-white, top secret, unmarked military jet armed with sidewinders, from a hidden base in Pennsylvania, to shoot down a civilian passenger jet. Wow. Oh wait, it was the single-engine F-16s that shot it down, because they were in hot pursuit (so claimed by "anonymous" the ACT), even though they weren't seen in the area by the eyewitnesses.

I don't claim to know what happened, but wow, here's a toast to you JB88. May your underwear have far less holes in it than your theories.


     Actually that discription sounds to me alot like a business jet.
The Gulfstream III thru V series has a T-tail, twin fuselage
mounted engines and winglets.  Plus most of them are painted
largely white.  

     Other than the A-10, I'm not aware of any combat aircraft that
feature external engines.  I also can't imagine why an "fighter"
would be painted white without markings.  Why make your
sooper dooper CIA fighter look different from any other one?
80th FS Headhunters
PHAN
Proud veteran of the Cola Wars

Offline genozaur

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #251 on: January 16, 2005, 04:34:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rino
Actually that discription sounds to me alot like a business jet.
The Gulfstream III thru V series has a T-tail, twin fuselage
mounted engines and winglets.  Plus most of them are painted
largely white.  

     Other than the A-10, I'm not aware of any combat aircraft that
feature external engines.  I also can't imagine why an "fighter"
would be painted white without markings.  Why make your
sooper dooper CIA fighter look different from any other one?


Is W still flying?

Offline genozaur

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #252 on: January 16, 2005, 04:36:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Boy the second one is still a secret.


Oops, Your Majesty!
 :eek:

Offline genozaur

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #253 on: January 16, 2005, 05:47:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
And how was this kept secret?

They're nuclear submarines, one of the most stealthy inventions of modern times... and they were seen.

The media broke the story because the Military told them or because it was simply something that was impossible to keep secret?

Come now... you said there were 50 year old secrets revealed by the military.  Share please.  Not the military being "caught".  That's not keeping a secret. that link doesn't work, though I give you kudos on stretching this to be world militaries.  Not enough examples of the U.S. military?  Let me refresh your memory... if you're forgetting exactly what you said:
All you've posted so far are situations that weren't kept secret very well at all.


About violation of New Zealand's anti-nuclear status I can't add much but only label your view in this matter as being rediculous.
If media learns a secret, it's not a secret anymore. I agree with that.
But you swap the term 'secret' with another term 'kept secret', and after that bash me in the head with the rather strange supposition that THE REVEALED SECRET NEVER WAS A SECRET. C' mon, I'm not a baby to be tricked by you using the old inquisition wonder weapon of supplanting one notion with complitely different topic. I was talking about the EXISTENCE OF THE SECRETS KEPT UNDER WRAPS FOR LONG YEARS, EVEN FOR DECADES. But you are talking about THE INFORMATION THAT IS NOT KEPT SECRET BECAUSE IT BECAME KNOWN TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC.
Yeah, my neighbor's grandmother never was a
virgin because she' too old.  :rofl

The website address fix for British nuclear secrets :

http://users.commkey.net/fussichen/otdatom.htm

It was working when I hotboted it.

And thirdly, there is the Atomic Veterans of America website which can be very very educational for you :

http://www.angelfire.com/tx/atomicveteran

(quote) "This Web Site is maintained by Atomic Veterans that were involved in nuclear testing. Contact information is also provided for filing claims with the U.S. Department of Justice, for those who were affected by fallout and radiation ...."

I have no time to look for the information on the aftereffects of the expolsure of American soldiers to Agent Orange. So help yourself.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2005, 05:50:02 PM by genozaur »

Offline Mini D

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #254 on: January 16, 2005, 06:05:56 PM »
genozaur,

You're simply being obtuse for the sake of it.

The second link was full of "published papers" describing exactly what was going on.  Once again, you are simply mistaken.  The secrecy around the atomic bomb was achieved by keeping things very remote and very small in scale.  Even the delivery of the bombs and the dropping of the ordinance exemplified that.

The thing is, anybody could have known this was going to happen... though maybe not the wheres and whens... but the atomic bomb was not a secret.  Not by any stretch of the imagination.  The trick was simply getting it to Japan and using it before people found out.

Nuclear submarines are not secret.  The world knows they exist.  The only way they can achieve secrecy is through complete isolation.  Once they surface, once they dock, once they do anything but run very quietly under the ocean, the secret is out.

The skunkworks facilities operate under a principle of isolation in an attempt ot maintain secrecy.  It is the only way they can even come close to it.  The weak link in the armor is the simple fact that at some time they are going to have to test out the devices they built.  They can do it at night, they can do it out in the middle of the desert, but they always run the risk of being seen.  I'd seen my first 117 before a photo was ever released simply because we were stationed close to one of their flight corridors and they had an in-flight emergency that required an immediate landing.  Word spread throughout the base that a top-secret jet was on it in no time.

So... you're saying that somehow, in the most densely populated portions of the U.S., in broad daylight and in complete and with complete and total secrecy amongst at least 4 branches of the government, this has been completely concealed?  Dude... you're a moron.  No if's ands or buts about it.

The links you provide only prove one thing: the military cannot keep a secret.  It is simply impossible.  Not one item you have listed shows that the military came forward with the information, or that they even managed to keep it a secret for a minimal amount of time.  It just doesn't happen.

hell... you'd think they could have kept abu grahib a secret... there were only a handfull of soldiers involved in that one... but no.  That just wasn't possible.  In this day when the internet and anonymity are available to virtually everyone, there is no such thing as a secret.  I know conspiracy theorists are going to have a hard time with this, but it's the simple truth.

This whole thing is full of anonymous testimony, mystery witnesses viewing mystery aircraft and completely conflicting testimony between at least half of the bullets listed.  Yet, you're willing to grab onto it simply because the masses are always morons and believing contrary to them proves your smart.  You're not.  Give it a rest and move onto actually putting thought into something.  This just isn't working.