Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania

[WhiteHawk]

Originally posted by Elfie
how did building 7 collapse? never heard much about that.

Well, thats a good point.  According to the official story, it caught on fire, the support structure was weakened, and it collapsed, just as the WTC did.  Now you know how conspiracy kooks get full ammo for their guns.
  the officials go into very elaborate details, when questioned about how the towers collapsed.  After all, the WTC towers were designed to withstand an impact from a smaller jet, (specifically a 707 sized passenger jet) but todays larger jets were just too much for the towers to withstand, all that fuel and what not.  It was the fuel that burned so intensely hot as to melt the support beams, each floor collapsing on itself, the next floor unable to withstand the added wieght, thus the towers fell perfectly vertically, just as they were designed to.
  'Umm, question Mr propaganda man, What happend to building 7?'  there was no jet fuel in there?!?!'
  'OK, well, uhhhh.  Obviously there was alot going on and the building caught on fire and collapsed also.'
  'You mean, kind sir, that for the first time in history, a modern skcyscraper failed from fire?'
 'And for the scond time?  and the third time from  a WASTE BASKET fire?!!  All in the same day?!!!!!  And they all fell perfectly vertically as they were designed to???!?!?  Hmmm, how does the building know when to collapse?  All of the supports have to give way at exactly the same time or the buildong would twist and curl and eventually come down horizontally causing massive damage?!?!'  Wow, what tremendous luck.  This dude Bin laden is good, real fricken good.!!   He could make a billion doing controled demolition.!  How come alll of the other buildings in the whole world have to be rigged with explosives and timed perfectly in order to come down like that?  How come...'
  'OK' says the PR man 'somebody get that squeak outta here, shes one of those conspiracy kooks!  Conspiracy kooks are not to be tolerated!'
 'But my son was killed in tower #2, I wanna know what happened!'
  'Read the official story!  By the way, you got any more sons?  We gonna go get some oil!  Muhahahahah'.

[GRUNHERZ]

Building 7 collapsed because the builsing owner rushed a demolotions team to the site on September 11 to implode the buliding after the other towers fell.  This was the most amazing implosion demollition in the history of ths industry fort several reasons:

1)  All the work was contracted, planned and done in a matter of a few hours - in a major catostrophy zone - with no knowledge of thsi by anyone - in tyhe middle of new york with all teh worlds media watching. All at a time when phone and nternet systems were sevely damaged and over capacity in the wole USA and espoecally new york.  Not to mention that all travel flights were grounded.  

2) Nobody seess to know whuich of the handful of demolotion firms qualified of doing this level of work was contacted to do it.

3) Nobody saw the demollition team of several hundred people enter the ground zero area that day and rig the buiolding with miles of detcord and sahped charges.

4) Nobody seems to know how of the explovies and other related equipment were transported to the site on 911 considering the huge travel restrictions into the city caused by the disaster.

5) Nobody saw anyone of the demolotion company set up a cordon around WTC7 and evacuate everyone o make sure taht it was safe before dropping teh plunger on teh explosives.


This really was the most amazing demolition in the history of the imlosion demoloition industry. It was simply amazing how any member of the demolotion industry was able to plan and execute this job on barely 3 hours notice in the middle of ground zero on 911 with basically nobody knowing.

[JB88]

i personally find those stories to be bunk.

though, i find the idea of people in the pentagon setting up schemes to do futures trading on terrorism to be pretty freeking wrong.

and this did happen.  

it should be noted that a missle can be lauched from far enough out that noone would have even seen it.

all that it requires is a little guidence.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by JB88
i

though, i find the idea of people in the pentagon setting up schemes to do futures trading on terrorism to be pretty freeking wrong.

and this did happen.

Sure did.

It was one of the most brilliant and innovative new ideas into intelligence gathering they came up with and it got canned because the plan looked bad on TV. So much for intelligence reform...

[JB88]

it looks bad any way you slice it.

not to mention stupid.  albeit brilliantly so.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by JB88
it looks bad any way you slice it.

not to mention stupid.  albeit brilliantly so.

But futures markets have shwn an amazing ability to predict future events. For example an election futures market has correctly predicted the outcom4 of of the US presidential election correctly every time for the past several decades...

And the point in this other market case was to anticipate new terror asttacks was it not?

I'm not "invested' in the idea but I do think  its rejection casts a doubt on the willingness of congress and the traditinal people to realy try new ideas.

[JB88]

it presents an unwillingness of people to bet upon the tradgedy of others.

and thats all that it is really.

betting and odds.

its a sh*tty stupid idea and the though of the government even considers it make my skin crawl.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by JB88
it presents an unwillingness of people to bet upon the tradgedy of others.

and thats all that it is really.

betting and odds.

its a sh*tty stupid idea and the though of the government even considers it make my skin crawl.

Thats a nice emotional way to look at it, yet you conveniently ignore that the whole point of it is to anticipate and thus help prevent such attacks - such tragedies.

Its not a get rich scheme which is what you are trying to paint it as..

But as for money, how is this any different than paying an informant ohh lets say 25 million to turn in Bin Laden or Zarquawi in the hope of preventing an attack.. Or evenm just paying informants for any sort of intel...

It's all the same..

[JB88]

um  ya.  youre right grun.

whatever.

[WhiteHawk]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Building 7 collapsed because the builsing owner rushed a demolotions team to the site on September 11 to implode the buliding after the other towers fell.  This was the most amazing implosion demollition in the history of ths industry fort several reasons:

1)  All the work was contracted, planned and done in a matter of a few hours - in a major catostrophy zone - with no knowledge of thsi by anyone - in tyhe middle of new york with all teh worlds media watching. All at a time when phone and nternet systems were sevely damaged and over capacity in the wole USA and espoecally new york.  

2) Nobody seess to know whuich of the handful of demolotion firms qualified of doing this level of work was contacted to do it.

3) Nobody saw the demollition team of several hundred people enter the ground zero area that day and rig the buiolding with miles of detcord and sahped charges.

4) Nobody seems to know how of the explovies and other related equipment were transported to the site on 911 considering the huge travel restrictions into the city caused by the disaster.

5) Nobody saw anyone of the demolotion company set up a cordon around WTC7 and evacuate everyone o make sure taht it was safe before dropping teh plunger on teh explosives.


This really was the most amazing demolition in the history of the imlosion demoloition industry. It was simply amazing how any member of the demolotion industry was able to plan and execute this job on barely 3 hours notice in the middle of ground zero on 911 with basically nobody knowing.

So true Grun.  Even if they were to be done over the course of several years, little by little before 911, it is nearly impossible.
  But, seeing that some of the kooks are assuming that this was a planned event by insiders, and it would have probably been planned even before bush took office, the explosives would have been planted before 911 took place.  The world trade center towers have been shut down and closed to everybody for maintenance a number of times prior to 911.  
  the story of the conspiracy kook is nearly as unbelieveable as the official version.
  But, the fact is.  Even if there were a possible way that the 2 towers collapsed as perfectly as they possibly could with as little collateral damage as POSSIBLE, there is no way that building 7 caught fire and collapsed as perfectly as possible from fire fueled by combustibles within the buidling.  And remember.  All of the WTC buildings were slated for massively expensive asbestos removal procedures that would have closed them for months, so we know they didnt neglect planning for fire.  
  I truly wish the officials would have come up with something more believeable like, 'After the 93 bombings a secret program to rig the towers with explosives was deemed necessary.   If any terror plot were to successfully seriously threaten the structural integrity of the towers, the towers would have to be demolished by controlled methods to prevent massive civilian and property damage to the surrounding area.  Every effort was made to evacuate the buildings and the surrounding area prior to the domlition.  This program saved thousands maybe 10's of thousands of lives and billions of dollars of property.'
  But, alas, we the people are expected to buy thier bulls hit or accept their astronomically impossible story without question.
  We are not supposed to look at the pictures that show no passenger jet at the pentagon, funny pods on the bottom of hijacked planes, and massive explosions prior to any collapse of any building at the WTC.  We are not supposed to notice the news casters ducking for cover as huge explosions echo through the streets of ground zero, prior to the collapsing of any buildings or the fireman on sight (those that survived) swearing the buildings were being blown by explosives, or the witnesses who swore they smelled cordite at the pentagon.
  I myself refuse to believe that a huge jumbo jet crashed into the pentagon and all they have to prove it is sketchy foggy 5 frame slideshow that shows nothing.  Is that the only camera the pentagon has to surviel with?    Sorry, charlie.  I beleive my eyes.
  The stakes are too high.  Who is trying to take over our military?  And why?

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by WhiteHawk
So true Grun.  Even if they were to be done over the course of several years, little by little before 911, it is nearly impossible.
  But, seeing that some of the kooks are assuming that this was a planned event by insiders, and it would have probably been planned even before bush took office, the explosives would have been planted before 911 took place.  The world trade center towers have been shut down and closed to everybody for maintenance a number of times prior to 911.  
  the story of the conspiracy kook is nearly as unbelieveable as the official version.
  But, the fact is.  Even if there were a possible way that the 2 towers collapsed as perfectly as they possibly could with as little collateral damage as POSSIBLE, there is no way that building 7 caught fire and collapsed as perfectly as possible from fire fueled by combustibles within the buidling.  And remember.  All of the WTC buildings were slated for massively expensive asbestos removal procedures that would have closed them for months, so we know they didnt neglect planning for fire.  
  I truly wish the officials would have come up with something more believeable like, 'After the 93 bombings a secret program to rig the towers with explosives was deemed necessary.   If any terror plot were to successfully seriously threaten the structural integrity of the towers, the towers would have to be demolished by controlled methods to prevent massive civilian and property damage to the surrounding area.  Every effort was made to evacuate the buildings and the surrounding area prior to the domlition.  This program saved thousands maybe 10's of thousands of lives and billions of dollars of property.'
  But, alas, we the people are expected to buy thier bulls hit or accept their astronomically impossible story without question.
  We are not supposed to look at the pictures that show no passenger jet at the pentagon, funny pods on the bottom of hijacked planes, and massive explosions prior to any collapse of any building at the WTC.  We are not supposed to notice the news casters ducking for cover as huge explosions echo through the streets of ground zero, prior to the collapsing of any buildings or the fireman on sight (those that survived) swearing the buildings were being blown by explosives, or the witnesses who swore they smelled cordite at the pentagon.
  I myself refuse to believe that a huge jumbo jet crashed into the pentagon and all they have to prove it is sketchy foggy 5 frame slideshow that shows nothing.  Is that the only camera the pentagon has to surviel with?    Sorry, charlie.  I beleive my eyes.
  The stakes are too high.  Who is trying to take over our military?  And why?

Thats an amazing post.

[TalonX]

I think it's a conspiracy.

Not really....I think there is a conspiracy to create the conspiracy theories that abound.

I'd love to know why people THRIVE on, and have to believe, that there is a secret story behind everything.   I swear, it's at the root of gossip.

[lazs2]

you internet conspiracy whackos sure put a lot of faith in "witnesses" who see this" or "smell that" and have names and idendities only on far left corners of the internet.

Wouldn't The CommieBroadcatingSeries and blather and friends be on their doorstep interviewing them if they could even be fleshed out?

Wouldn't michele moore be using them in his next fiction opus?

lazs

[patrone]

For once, I have to agree with Laz2 and Grun. This conspiracy story is so full of BS.
The guys that are planting theese stories must be rofl their azzes off.

[lazs2]

well.... say they were all absolutely true...  

Us "right wingers" are not your enemy.... your lefty pals like blather and moore are your enemy.... they have betrayed you... where is ted kennedy and kerrie?   where are all your lefty friends?    They are the ones giving you the shaft..

all we are doing is making fun of you.

lazs