Author Topic: Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania  (Read 5675 times)

Offline genozaur

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #60 on: January 08, 2005, 02:08:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AWMac
IMAGINATION IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN KNOWLEDGE...
Albert Einstein
US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)

WHEN I HEAR THE WORD "CULTURE" I REACH FOR MY GUN. (c. 1939)
Hans Johst
German propagandist (1870 - 1978), recipient of NSDAP Prize for Arts and Sciences (1935)


WHEN IN DOUBT, PISS ON IT!
MacMaw
U.S Army Retired (1975-1995)


:aok


NEVER PISS AGAINST THE WIND.
(Russian saying since the times immemorial)

And I have no doubts that the wind is blowing,
even if it's only 5 miles per hour.

Offline Yeager

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #61 on: January 08, 2005, 02:16:52 PM »
the problem I have with this theory is that if the USAF did bring that plane down I would have preferred that instead of the plane crashing into the white house.  I do not have a problem with USAF or USN , MARINES or USCG doing it.  A neccessary thing imo.

Also, all the evidence does seem to support an attempted faulire by passenger to take the plane back.

The only problem would be if the passenger did indeed manage to take the plane back (very unlikely) and were then shot down by the USAF.  Even then it would be an tragically unfortunate mistake.

Whats the big deal again?
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #62 on: January 08, 2005, 02:37:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
At the core of things, that's why most of these theories become easy to believe... people simply don't know any better.


I believe insanity plays a greater role here...

This thread is typical of the insane 911 WTC rigged to blow, pentagon hit by cruise missle, etc etc 911 consipracy theories. I always wonder what kind of garbage these lunatics would come up with if the WTC strikes werent videotaped and showqn on live TV. Heck even with all those planes hitting the towers some propose elaborate theories that WTC towers were rigged with explosives beforehand.

genozaur you are a lunatic, seek help...

Offline genozaur

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #63 on: January 08, 2005, 03:25:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Golfer
Okay I'm going to do some hole shooting in the paper theory here.

Woman says "the plane is at 40-50ft above my minivan"

No.


It seems like the airplane entered a dive, the hijackers being not the most experienced pilots around overstress the aircraft and in the process dislodge an engine from its mounts, this ruins the balance and thrust of the airplane.  Hijackers still adding G's to the airplane to get it out of the dive don't compensate for asymmetrical thrust and wind up accelerating the airplanes rate of roll and before you know it...its in the dirt.


A small jet with 2 rear engines and a spoiler like that of a car sounds like an Adam A700, but that wasn't in the area because there's only prototypes built after 9/11.  An unmanned air force drone?  maybe.  I bet looking straight up at this airplane she could confuse the upside down V tail of a predator for what she thinks she saw.

How much of this story is absolutely true if the woman clames an airplane was flying 40-50 ft above her head...thats low.  Too damn low.  So low there isn't any reason to fly that low unless you're approaching/departing an airport.  I don't buy into this woman's description for a minute.  I've read too many accident reports where turboprops had their engines sputtering or 'revving' like a car engine...it doesn't work like that.  She might mean well, but she isn't close to accurate.


Hey Golfer, I'm glad to hear for the first time in this thread some balanced criticism without any
flee search in the opponent's behind.

Your explaination of the aeromechanics of the engine loss sounds convincingly enough, but it looks like it can be mainly applied in the case of
full (in one piece) rip off of the engine from its
mounts. Yet what we have here is a one-ton section of one of the engines. [THE DEBRIS

The US Government insists the plane exploded on impact yet a one-ton section of the engine was found over a mile away and other light debris was found scattered over eight miles away].

Still your theory about the forced dislodging of the engine off its mounts could be validated if there is evidence that before finally hitting the dirt and while the plane was still flying at a very low altitude one of the plane's engines came into contact with the top of the high tree, for instance. I guess such a forced contact, if it really occured, could lead to the partial (one section only) rip off.
 But I can't be of real help on this one because I still haven't read the official investigation records which are supposed to be somewhere in the public domain today after over the three years since the tragic event. I wonder if your smart bellybutton is aware of existence of such records available to the general public. Or are they still hidden under the cloak of top secrecy ? What do you expect of ordinary people who were not given sufficient information about this tragedy ?
I guess you prefer to punch holes in the "stupid" paper theories than to dig to the core of the matter in this case.
The rest of your "reasoning" is plainly and simply worse than the paper theory itself as it may seem to you.
 
Can you at least agree that "a mile away" one-ton section of the engine SHOULD BE OFFICIALLY AND WIDELY EXPLAINED TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC. I wouldn't care much if it is a lie. The much bigger problem is that the government of this country has started to think that its subjects don't have to be given any explainations at all.

And if you doubt anything you become dubious.

 :cool:
« Last Edit: January 08, 2005, 05:16:07 PM by genozaur »

Offline genozaur

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #64 on: January 08, 2005, 03:41:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I believe insanity plays a greater role here...

This thread is typical of the insane 911 WTC rigged to blow, pentagon hit by cruise missle, etc etc 911 consipracy theories. I always wonder what kind of garbage these lunatics would come up with if the WTC strikes werent videotaped and showqn on live TV. Heck even with all those planes hitting the towers some propose elaborate theories that WTC towers were rigged with explosives beforehand.

genozaur you are a lunatic, seek help...


Meine Liebe Grunherz, I haven't found a funny yota of any sense at all in your post. If you are obsessed with lunatics please do visit lunatic asylum. It may help, or maybe not.
I'm proud of you though because you never ever piss against the wind. I guess it makes you a wise man.

:p
« Last Edit: January 09, 2005, 04:56:08 PM by genozaur »

Offline WhiteHawk

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #65 on: January 08, 2005, 03:47:08 PM »
Here is some interesting reading genozaur.  It may help to understand the wall you are going to be banging your head against.  It starts off slow, but it heats up.

http://www.911-strike.com/debunking.htm

Offline JB88

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #66 on: January 08, 2005, 03:50:13 PM »
this thread is doomed.
www.augustbach.com  

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.

Offline genozaur

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #67 on: January 08, 2005, 04:17:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
....

You're basically saying that the U.S. government and U.S. military working in conjunction with the civil authorities to instantly cover up a jet being shot down by fighters.  I thought our current government was supposed to be incompetent?

Oh yeah... Maybe Eagl will stop by this thread and enlighten you on how many active duty fighters are on alert in the lower 48 states as compared to national guard aircraft.  And... what the likelyhood of any military fighter not on active alert having armed missiles pre-loaded.  And... even how long it would take to take missiles from the ammo bunker, trailer it to the aircraft and then load it.  And... what kind of clearence would be necessary and exactly how much communication would be taking place prior to shooting down a civilian passenger liner.  

I do believe you're speaking with little to no experience or actual knowledge on that particular subject.  At the core of things, that's why most of these theories become easy to believe... people simply don't know any better.


Mini D, I can't care less about you and your current government. I am talking about the unnecessary secrecy in the rightful military matters. If the plane in question was really shot down by the USAF, it was, in my opinion, the absolutely necessary military action. But what followed this action could have been the most ill-advised political crap in this country's recent history. And I would like to know the names of those advisers. If you don't want to know nothing about this, it's your minor problem.

And I also can't care less about my "little to no"
(as you put it) experience in getting clearance and all for shooting down a civilian airliner hijacked by the terrorists with the intention of using it as a flying bomb. If it takes forty minutes to do that, your current government can without any regrets retire the whole Air wing of your military. It'll save a lot of taxpayers' monies.

  :D

Offline genozaur

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #68 on: January 08, 2005, 04:41:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by WhiteHawk
Here is some interesting reading genozaur.  It may help to understand the wall you are going to be banging your head against.  It starts off slow, but it heats up.

http://www.911-strike.com/debunking.htm


Thank you, White Hawk. Nice read !

I can already feel the bumps on my head after just posting a couple of innocent questions on these BBs. Don't start me talking about the Soviet totalitarian state. What a nice country it was.

Offline Golfer

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #69 on: January 08, 2005, 05:10:09 PM »
Quote
Still your theory about the forced dislodging of the engine off its mounts could be validated if there is evidence that before finally hitting the dirt and while the plane was still flying at a very low altitude one of the plane's engines came into contact with the top of the high tree, for instance. I guess such a forced contact, if it really occured, could lead to the partial (one section only) rip off.


Ok, please tell me exactly which 'ton' of parts of the 12,700lb Pratt PW2040 engine wound up a mile away from the crash site.

Please tell me your experience dealing with aviation accidents and inflight breakups.

Please tell me which institution you escaped from in order to believe any of the garbage conspiracy theorists are feeding you.  When an airplane is moving at Vwaytoofast parts start coming off.  Engines overspeed when too much air is rushed into them and can cause a whole engine section to go spewing out.

All I did was try to offer you a perfectly viable alternative to your wacko way of thinking but instead of saying "oh, that could be a possiblity" you duck and cover while sticking your head in the sand and scream "NOOOooOooOO, it can't be I am right!"

Quote
Can you at least agree that "a mile away" one-ton section of the engine SHOULD BE OFFICIALLY AND WIDELY EXPLAINED TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC. I wouldn't care much if it is a lie. The much bigger problem is that the government of this country has started to think that its subjects don't have to be given any explainations at all.


I'm really gonna shoot you to the moon with this one...

I don't think they need to explain anything to me.  I have an inherent trust and faith in the government that the right knowledge is getting to the right people.  9/11 is gone and overwith.  How the hijackers did what they did and all the in flight details which I am sure the government knows have no business being in my hands.  I think its good to keep those ideas out of the hands of knuckleheads like you and simply let you toot your horns about a conspiracy theory.  I think that with what the government knows about how the terrorists took the aircraft and how they acted in flight could save lives in the future should it happen again.  Its better to keep it safely under wraps because what good would it be to release a "how to" manual for hijacking an airliner?


(Insert "You are a tool" photograph here)

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #70 on: January 08, 2005, 05:37:38 PM »
Lets not argue or reason with the lunatics, just ridicule them...

Offline JB88

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #71 on: January 08, 2005, 05:48:55 PM »
"Lets not argue or reason with the lunatics, just ridicule them..."  - grunherz




i couldnt agree more

and more

and moore  ... lol
this thread is doomed.
www.augustbach.com  

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #72 on: January 08, 2005, 05:50:38 PM »
Yep, just keep thinking that and your side will keep loosing elections and elections and electipons...

Offline JB88

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #73 on: January 08, 2005, 05:53:55 PM »
electipons too!?  - oh dear lord.

note.  you might read some of my other posts so that you might grasp that i have always fallen solidly in the republican party until dubya.  i actually drove in a motorcade for the guy in your avitar.

pull!!!!!
this thread is doomed.
www.augustbach.com  

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.

Offline JB88

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Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #74 on: January 08, 2005, 05:55:56 PM »
his hands were very soft and sorta chilly btw.
this thread is doomed.
www.augustbach.com  

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.