Getting the 190's nose around

[mauser]

Hiya folks,
I was wondering if any of you have tips on getting the nose around in the 190. When fighting anything, I'll dive to gain speed till about 300 before I attempt to reverse. When I do reverse, I go vertical (from the well known advice on NOT to horizontal turn a 190) to immelman or wingover. I find that I have to extend till at least d2.4k before I feel comfortable enough to reverse. If I don't wait long enough, the con usually has a better ability to get his nose on me at the merge while I'm struggling to accelerate and get the nose pointed in his general direction. A lot of times, I get killed or badly damaged by snap shots this way. So what do you do when you reverse? Chop the throttle, use rudder, flaps? Extend till you're faster than 300?
Heh.. and no, I don't want to fly another plane (except for the 109 once in a while). I've gotten way too accustomed to that roll rate, and she's my fav. bird anyway  

mauser

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The Fighting Meese
        &
Provisional BVD - Bishopsverteidigung

[Kieren]

Sounds to me like you have the right idea already. Don't chop throttle, you will just wallow around. I drop a notch of flap to help bring it around, but other than that do exactly as you described.

From what you have described it seems you are in a general nose-to-nose situation. My advice is that if you are co-alt when you start, don't even reverse unless you have plenty of E- then zoom as high as you can after the merge. If you get a good shot on the second merge, great. If not, you better bug out for a little room or escape.

[-ammo-]

Hi --not the expert on the 190 but heresz a few things you might use. First--having more altitude than your enemy is a must. Historically however the 190A wasnt a good perfromer above 15K. But However for AH I would suggest more alt. Use this plane for pure Boom and zoom. Out of all the fighters here I believe the 190 has the worst turn rate. picking your shot is important. setup your attack so that you are coming from the rear.If you have to turn out of plane very much get a good tracking shot then it is best to just zoom back up using ALL your built up energy to regain the alt you had. DONT SPEND ALL YOUR ENERGY MANUEVERING FOR A SHOT. Obviously this is a conservative approach, some good 190 pilots do it completely differently. Remember your plus's--you have an outstanding roll rate, you can split esse for an escape very fast (try not to use the split esse as an offensive manuever) you have great speed, perhaps only beaten by the P51. This works for me, I invariably make mistakes though You might speak  with RAM as he flies the 190 alot.

hope this helps a little

 

[StSanta]

I've seen Hristos outturn a Spit during a high speed snapshot.

Was amusing.



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StSanta
II/JG2

[funked]

I've found the nose gets around pretty quick when I blow the empennage off.  

[funked]

Oh God I guess I'll give a serious answer.  I don't fly it much but when I do, lots of planes die except mine.  

Best way to reverse is by going straight up.  Practice zooming as high as you can and reversing (hammerhead, flop, whatever works for you).

Flat turns in the 190 will get you out of energy in a hurry.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by funked:
I don't fly it much but when I do, lots of planes die except mine.      


Like .73 more of 1 death dies more than he, (1.73 K/D ratio) LOL!
           

Maybe you should fly the FW more Funked!  Join the "dark side"...you've been there, did that, we'll take ya back!  No Barbie and Ken questions asked!

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 05-19-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 05-19-2000).]

[humble]

I'm probably totally unqualified to comment on 190...but, hehe, that hasn't stopped me yet...so here goes...The key question i have is relative energy state on the zoom...the 190 drivers who I see doing well manage there E...Ideally they're topping out over the con...but within a close range...1.5-2.0...so that they're reversing right on top of con while he is still "wallowing"...the 190 is an ideal rope a dope ride...and if you can grasp the histro "slice back" it's capable of unreal vertical moves.

[mauser]

Thanks for your tips guys... I'll have to work on remembering to hit the flaps and stuff when I attempt to reverse. My tendency right now is to get so caught up and excited when I get into a fight that I forget all the other controls and just use whatever I can grab immediately, i.e. the stick and throttle. From what I've read so far in previous posts and your replies, I shouldn't try to press the attack after a couple of passes. Generally I find that to be true. However, I remember one memorable (in my eyes anyway) fight I had when we were still in beta. And, LOL it was against funked in his spitIX, a low alt 1 on 1. I think I had a bit of alt advantage. We went at least 3 merges, one of them with both of us firing HO but missing. I would be diving at him and then zooming when he was in the middle of his reverse (don't remember exactly). I remember sweating to get the nose around to him after the reverse. Finally the fight was over when I had a joystick spike which gave the "Don't move your contols so rapidly" message and basically forced me to fly straight and level in his sights.
I've heard about the sliceback in reading a little article by DocDoom from AGW on flying the 190. Steep climb, opposite rudder to bleed speed. Then simultaneously roll into climb and kick rudder into the turn. That's how I remember it, haven't really done it successfully the few time's I've tried. Maybe I wait to long to get into the turn b/c I'm wallowing most of the time. I've never seen Hristos do it as I haven't seen him much when I'm on. One day maybe I will.

mauser

[RAM]

RIght now I have not many time...but I'll be back in 1.5 hours and be glad to give you some tips.

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Ram, out

Fw190D9? Ta152H1? The truth is out there
JG2 "Richthofen"

   

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 05-20-2000).]

[RAM]

Ok Back...

Lets start with some myths and facts:
Myth: the Fw190 cant turn a S$$t.
Fact: The Fw190 is the best turner over 300mph, but its very bad under 225 mph.

Myth: The Fw190 bleeds E like crazy.
Fact: The FW190 retains E well at hispeeds, very bad under 225mph.

Myth: The Fw190 cant fight a co-E engagement with hopes to escape alive.
Truth: The Fw190 can outmanouver anything that cant outrun, with the possible exception of the F4U.

Myth: The 190 has an awesome puch.
Fact: It has it, but NIki, Spitfire and Cannonhawgs have way more,as mausers are (wrong IMHO) the less powerful 20mm round here.

Myth: low speed 190 handling sucks.
Truth:low speed 190 handling is AWESOME...until you stall without warning   .Few trimming is needed, and your rollrate rules at all speeds.Use it.

Ok...I could go on with this...but time to get the question: How to turn in Fw190?.

Answer:Loop if you have the E, High Yoyo if you havent. A low yoyo can help a lot if you are fast enough, and you **REALLY** need to turn tight (for example: a con is diving on you to kill you).

Fw190A is a killer under 15K and retains its own up to 22K or so. Over 23K it is a dead plane.

Fw190A dives like a dream, its hispeed handling is simply awesome,and its zooming is good, too. Boom and zoom tactics work well.

Lets give tips on Fw190 versus other planes, CoE at 10K:

Spitfire: Can kill it with E advantage. IF you lose it, run to home. He wont catch you.

Niki: Same with Spitfire, but more dangerous. Still you can run home if you lose your E situation.

C202:Like a SpitV, it turns on a dime. Simply deny him the turn, and zoom away. The bad thing in these planes is that when you come back, the guy is going for a HO (wise move in tactical disadvantage). But with its light weapons, C202 is not a problem in HO (Spits and nikis are other leage, tho   )

C205:Treat it as a SpitIX. It accelerates better, has slightly better speed, and turns a bit worse.

Me109F4: Same as SpitIX and C205...but this one climbs a bit better.

Me109G2: Dangerous. Packs a good turn, awesome acceleration and amusing climbrate, in a single pack. Still suffers of bad low speed rollrate...fw190 retains it until it stalls   . So, get him slow and outmanouver him.

La5: dangerous opponent, deck speed near that of Fw190. Still you can outmanouver it with rollrate alone, but with care, as it accelerates as a rocket.

Me109G10: This is one of the planes I most fear in Fw190. Doenst turn very well...but you turn worse than him. Its the exact opposite of the Fw190. Dives bad, has wonderful climbrate and bad rollrate. It is faster than you at all speeds so you must stay and fight. Get him slow and outmanouver it...or stay fast and try to catch him in one of those dreadful hammerheads...your choice but fights versus G10 are bad bad news for a Fw190.

P38: Its FAST...but not more than you low on the deck. turns quite well with flaps but its rollrate sucks under 250 mph...and it is a big target  

P51: faster than you at all altitudes...but I still dont fear it. low speed p51 handling is AWFUL!...you get the tip?  

Typhoon: Careful with this one, its only flown by experts...runs a lot low on the deck...but bleeds E like crazy...all in all I dont fear it very much, if I handle it with care.

F4U: fw190 killer. Does all that 190 does, and does it better. It dives better, it rolls very fast, it is faster at all altitudes, it has 4 hispanos (AJJJ!!), climbs a bit better, turns way better, has combat flaps (I really miss that in a 190!   )...you cant run from it and you cant outmanouver it...Still you can fight it, F4U drivers use to go for the snapshot and the HO, and bleed E doing so...try to make him bleed E and he is dead.

Well these are some tips on fw190...it has been long but I hope this helps.


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Ram, out

Fw190D9? Ta152H1? The truth is out there
JG2 "Richthofen"

   

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 05-20-2000).]

[Titanium]

Hi All,
      Darn nice reading this post, Ram your post has given me the inspiration to stay with the 109's until i feel confident in them

A great post to read from all

It sure seems to of helped me out for sure

 
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[This message has been edited by Titanium (edited 05-20-2000).]

[mauser]

Wow.. that's some great advice RAM, thank you! To tell you the truth I pretty much believed most the myths you mentioned. Especially about turning (horizontal turns). But I didn't really understand the fine print, which is the part about high speed handling. I guess that's one of the reasons why I've gotten used to the 190.. it feels more responsive to control input than most of the other aircraft. Your breakdown of plane vs. plane tips should be especially helpful. I've had similar experiences against some of the other aircraft, i.e. I'm not really affraid of spitfires (if it's a high-time pilot in it though, I'm usually dead anyway). I don't like Mustangs however, especially if they have alt on me. If I can force them to overshoot they usually have enough speed to run and keep running. Anyway, it's great to hear from you and the other pilots who have a lot more experience, I really appreciate your sharing your knowledge.
I just remembered RAM, one fight (not really a fight I guess) I had against you when we were still in free beta. I had just lifted off from F18 in a 190 to chase away a b26 when you came in with a lot more alt. Knowing I'd be toast I dove back towards the field into the shelter of the ack. I remember you didn't like that I dove into the ack   Then when I came back out you came down and stuck to my 6. I didn't know what else to do but go to guns defense. I knew I could change directions rapidly so I scissored, watching your moves and trying to break into you each time. Eventually you hit me and I had to bail, and you complimented me on my evasives (which I still appreciate coming from higher-time pilots). lol, I got compliments on my evasives from other pilots I considered  a lot better than me, but I always wished I could be feared for my "kung fu", not for how I have to evade  
Thanx again everyone! See you up there

mauser

[Hristo]

Great tips, RAM.

As much as we wait for A-5, I think I am gonna stay with quad 20mm A-8. The plane is a challenge indeed. And it ain't a Quake plane too  

If I have 10k alt or at least 300 IAS with me, I do not fear other planes in A-8.

[funked]

LOL Rip, my Fw 190 figure is more like 4:1.  But I use that plane for air-superiority.  However about 1/3 to 1/2 of my missions in the other birds are Jabo missions, so my overall K/D is kind of skewed by all the ack deaths, and getting shot down low and slow after a successful bomb run, etc.

But you have a good point - Fw 190 is a much easier plane to maintain a high K/D in than a Spitfire.  However the ultimate IMHO remains the P-51D.


[This message has been edited by funked (edited 05-22-2000).]