I remember some old posts discussing the AH's Spitfire IX as a Spitfire F.IX

[MiloMorai]

Originally posted by Angus
Don't really know, just had it from a pilot who fought in the med, and later flew all over the globe.
He just said he was surprized to find out how quickly it got cold there, and that it was actually colder than in N Europe.

Could be because the Med is generally hotter than NE Europe. Sweating bullfrogs on the ground and then climbing to altitude would make it seem like it was colder.

[mw]

Hello:

I would just like to point out that 4 x 20mm cannon was an officially sanctioned alternative loadout for the Spit LF VIII and was used in service - see Aussie Spit VIII:



p.s.  I wouldn't get too hung up on semantics; for example "A Merlin 66 engined Spit"  pretty much says what needs said.

[Kev367th]

Been saying for a while an LFVIII would be great.
We already have the airframe, our spit 14 used Spit 8 frame. Would just need engine and performance tweaking.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by mw
Hello:

I would just like to point out that 4 x 20mm cannon was an officially sanctioned alternative loadout for the Spit LF VIII and was used in service - see Aussie Spit VIII:



p.s.  I wouldn't get too hung up on semantics; for example "A Merlin 66 engined Spit"  pretty much says what needs said.

OK but clarify the photograph.  That was the CO's Spit and they gave it 4 cannon and extended wing tips to chase high alt Dinahs.  It was not done squadron wide.

Just because it could be done, didn't mean it was done on a regular basis.  Trust me I'm a 30 year Spit fanatic, but it just wasn't something done often.

Dan/Slack

[Flyboy]

Originally posted by Guppy35
The LF, F, HF designation referred to the altitiude band the engine was best suited for.

HF and the Merlin 70 obviously being optimized for very high alt work.

F for high to medium alts

LF for medium to low alts

Dan/Slack

guppy, that doesnt answer my question, im interested in the difference between the F.IX moddels. since you guys said the F.IX had 3 types of engines.

and what engine does the AH spit F.IX have?

[Guppy35]

IF HT and company were going to do it right, at least in my book, this is how they'd do it with the 2 stage Merlin crowd.

Keep the Spitfire FIX they have, remove the option for the E wing, remove the tropical filter and the option to carry bombs and rockets.  Let it carry 30,45 or 90 gallon drop tanks.  Merlin 61.  85 gallons internal fuel

This would cover the period from the summer of 42 to the Spring of 43.

Then add a Spitfire LFVIII with full span Universal wings with 2 20mm and 4 303s as well as the tall tail, tropical filter, 124 gallons internal fuel, short span ailerons, retractable tail wheel and a Merlin 66.  The ultimate Merlin Spit.  It can carry 30,45, 04 90 gallon drop tanks and a bomb on the centerline.

This covers June 43 to the end of the war in the Med and Pacific.  It's also is skinners heaven as it carried the most varied of the schemes, whether it be Aussie, SEAC, USAAF, RAF MTO etc.  It can also stand in for the VII

Then add the Spitfire LFXVIe.  This covers the ETO from Mid 44 to the end of the war.  This would probably be the MA favorite as it would have the Merlin 266, clipped wings, tall tail, E wing with 2 20mm and 2 50 cals along with 3 hard points with a load out of 3 bombs, a bomb and two rockets, or a drop tank and bombs or rockets.   85 gallons internal fuel.  This would  be the bird I'd fly

Image shows a Spitfire FIX, LFVIII and LFXVIe

Dan/Slack

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Flyboy
guppy, that doesnt answer my question, im interested in the difference between the F.IX moddels. since you guys said the F.IX had 3 types of engines.

and what engine does the AH spit F.IX have?

I would imagine we've got the Merlin 61 in the AH bird.  The engines were just redesignated for certain mods.  The Merlin 63 was in fact a modified Merlin 61 that changed the supercharger drive.  The Merlin 63A was a modified Merlin 63.  Performance would have been about the same.

61 had 1565 max horsepower and weighed1640 lbs

63 had1650 max horsepower and weighed 1645 lbs.

63A had 1710 max horsepower and weighed 1645 lbs.

Dan/Slack

[mw]

Hello Dan:
"Just because it could be done, didn't mean it was done on a regular basis."

I don't disagree with that statement, and made no claims otherwise  Is there much about flight sims that is representative of a types service history?  AH Spit I, IX, XIV being a perfect case in point?

I simply stated what the historical evidence shows to be the case: "...that 4 x 20mm cannon was an officially sanctioned alternative loadout for the Spit LF VIII and was used in service" without qualification.  Do you have documentation demonstrating the statement to be factually in error?  How the facts are implemented in-game is no concern of mine.  With regards to your Spit lineup; F IX, LF VIII, and LFXVIe: nice!     Only possible exception might be a +25 lb Spit IX circa Spring 1944 - heck of an arena plane, especially if the plane sets are based on selected time periods.

Flyboy see here for some discussion about the various Merlins equipping Spit IXs.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by mw
Hello Dan:
"Just because it could be done, didn't mean it was done on a regular basis."

I don't disagree with that statement, and made no claims otherwise  Is there much about flight sims that is representative of a types service history?  AH Spit I, IX, XIV being a perfect case in point?

I simply stated what the historical evidence shows to be the case: "...that 4 x 20mm cannon was an officially sanctioned alternative loadout for the Spit LF VIII and was used in service" without qualification.  Do you have documentation demonstrating the statement to be factually in error?  How the facts are implemented in-game is no concern of mine.  With regards to your Spit lineup; F IX, LF VIII, and LFXVIe: nice!     Only possible exception might be a +25 lb Spit IX circa Spring 1944 - heck of an arena plane, especially if the plane sets are based on selected time periods.

Flyboy see here for some discussion about the various Merlins equipping Spit IXs.

Fair enough

My fear in Flight Sims though is that folks can point to small instances of something and use that as their argument for it making sense.  There were a small number of P80s in Italy with the 1st FG at the end of the war, therefore we should have P80s.  Did they ever fire a shot in anger in WW2? Nope.  You can argue that the Meteor was at least operational shooting down V-1s and I personally know a guy who was flying them with 616 in 44-45.  But they never got involved in the airwar over the continent.  So should we have them?  I don't think so. But that's just me.

It's kinda like the guys wanting a 4 cannon Merlin Mustang because they've seen one image of a prototype with that armament.

It goes on and on

as for the +25 boost Spit LFIX.  I figure that's the LFXVIe too.  Same time frame.  Just has the American built Merlin 266 instead of the Rolls Merlin 66.  Airframe is identical, only the engine decided the designation.

Dan/Slack

[mw]

Oh, I agree with you that aircraft modeled in sims should be representative of the type.  Knowing what that is can, at times,  be contentious  

"as for the +25 boost Spit LFIX. I figure that's the LFXVIe too."

Good point!  To the extent time frame matters, and I gather it doesn't here, the +25 LF IX was operational rather earlier.

[MiloMorai]

Dan, not to disagree with your source but,

the Meteor did make it the continent. The were used for a2g missions. Four a/c on Jan 20 1945 were sent to Melsbrook Belguim. In March they went to Gilze-Rijen Holland where they were joined by the rest of the Squadron(616). On April 13 they moved to Nijmegen. On April 17 they attacked ground targets in the Ijmuiden area. On april 20 they were based at Quackenbruck and then on to Fassberg. May 3 they attacked Schonberg airfield, claiming 6 a/c. Sometime in the next few days, 4 Meteors attempted to attack some Fw190s but were jumped by Tempests and Spitfires and were forced to breakoff.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Guppy35
IF HT and company were going to do it right, at least in my book, this is how they'd do it with the 2 stage Merlin crowd.

Keep the Spitfire FIX they have, remove the option for the E wing, remove the tropical filter and the option to carry bombs and rockets.  Let it carry 30,45 or 90 gallon drop tanks.  Merlin 61.  85 gallons internal fuel

This would cover the period from the summer of 42 to the Spring of 43.

Then add a Spitfire LFVIII with full span Universal wings with 2 20mm and 4 303s as well as the tall tail, tropical filter, 124 gallons internal fuel, short span ailerons, retractable tail wheel and a Merlin 66.  The ultimate Merlin Spit.  It can carry 30,45, 04 90 gallon drop tanks and a bomb on the centerline.

This covers June 43 to the end of the war in the Med and Pacific.  It's also is skinners heaven as it carried the most varied of the schemes, whether it be Aussie, SEAC, USAAF, RAF MTO etc.  It can also stand in for the VII

Then add the Spitfire LFXVIe.  This covers the ETO from Mid 44 to the end of the war.  This would probably be the MA favorite as it would have the Merlin 266, clipped wings, tall tail, E wing with 2 20mm and 2 50 cals along with 3 hard points with a load out of 3 bombs, a bomb and two rockets, or a drop tank and bombs or rockets.   85 gallons internal fuel.  This would  be the bird I'd fly

Image shows a Spitfire FIX, LFVIII and LFXVIe

Dan/Slack

I absolutely agree with everything Dan said here and, for the penny it's worth, fully endorse such a AH Spitfire plan.

Please HTC, look at this as a way to fill out the Spitfire line in AH.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by MiloMorai
Dan, not to disagree with your source but,

the Meteor did make it the continent. The were used for a2g missions. Four a/c on Jan 20 1945 were sent to Melsbrook Belguim. In March they went to Gilze-Rijen Holland where they were joined by the rest of the Squadron(616). On April 13 they moved to Nijmegen. On April 17 they attacked ground targets in the Ijmuiden area. On april 20 they were based at Quackenbruck and then on to Fassberg. May 3 they attacked Schonberg airfield, claiming 6 a/c. Sometime in the next few days, 4 Meteors attempted to attack some Fw190s but were jumped by Tempests and Spitfires and were forced to breakoff.

I wasn't very clear when I typed that so you are right They certainly were on the continent.  My friend along with his CO at war's end went and grabbed a couple of 262s and brought them to Fassberg.

The point is the same though.  Their use was so limited, in terms of a Flight Sim it would make much less sense to add Meteors then it would to add Spitfire XIIs for example.  Yet I'd say hold off on XIIs, as much as I like them, because their numbers were so limited.

There are too many other planes that saw more widespread use that should join the party first.

Dan/Slack

[Angus]

Very nice layout Guppy.

But...how about one of e'm being bubble hooded, - or modify our XIV????

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Angus
Very nice layout Guppy.

But...how about one of e'm being bubble hooded, - or modify our XIV????

They got into the war so late that it doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but then again who asked me

I don't like the look of the bubble tops nearly as much as the high profile fuselage.  It doesn't look like a Spit to me.

Bubble topped XVI on top and XIV down low

Dan/Slack