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Author Topic: Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?  (Read 2398 times)

Offline tapakeg

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« on: January 15, 2005, 12:39:15 PM »
Quote
FORT HOOD, Texas (AP) - Army Spc. Charles Graner Jr., the reputed ringleader of a band of rogue guards at Abu Ghraib, may tell his story about what went on inside the notorious Baghdad prison after all.




I'm sorry, but a spc.4 is a RINGLEADER?  This sounds fishy.  
Where were the NCO's?  Where were the Officers?  Who is in charge,  an E-4?

Someone is being setup, so others with rank don't lose a career.


If anything this sounds like a total failure of the leadership chain of command.


If you are dumb enough to have friends photograph you doing things that will get you courtmartialed for 15 years you get what you deserve.


On top of that, I think he has other issues..........

Quote
Graner was accused of stacking naked prisoners in a human pyramid and later ordering them to masturbate while other soldiers took photographs




Tapakeg
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Offline Fishu

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2005, 01:27:04 PM »
The officer responsible of these guys must've been on a loooong vacation.
Which makes me wonder why the officer responsible of the prison and the guards, didn't get court martialed.
Would be quite hard for the officer to explain how he didn't have any idea about such stuff going on...

Fishy indeed...
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2005, 01:29:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by tapakeg
I'm sorry, but a spc.4 is a RINGLEADER?  This sounds fishy.  
Where were the NCO's?  Where were the Officers?  Who is in charge,  an E-4?

Someone is being setup, so others with rank don't lose a career.


If anything this sounds like a total failure of the leadership chain of command.


If you are dumb enough to have friends photograph you doing things that will get you courtmartialed for 15 years you get what you deserve.


On top of that, I think he has other issues..........


Tapakeg


Charles Graner seems to be a little Ghey.

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Offline Maverick

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2005, 01:34:09 PM »
I have to agree here. There was an OIC of this institution as well as other officers. I fail to see where there was anything approaching adequate supervision or leadership here. There is a massive void in the chain of comand given the courts actions so far.
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Offline Gunthr

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2005, 01:43:44 PM »
Its so political. If you care about this stuff in the context of life in America, this investigation isn't very satisfying. It would need to go up the chain to reach a level of integrity.

I choose to look at this in the context of war. In that context, this ain't nothing but a thang.

Remember when that army officer, feeling his responsibilty, fired his side arm next to the head of a suspected terrorist to elicit info to protect his people?

They hanged him out to dry. As far as I'm concerned, none of this stuff  belongs in the news, and our military better get thier sh*t together on how to conduct war in the "information age."
« Last Edit: January 15, 2005, 01:48:14 PM by Gunthr »
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Offline Fishu

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2005, 01:50:43 PM »
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Originally posted by Gunthr
They hanged him out to dry. As far as I'm concerned, none of this stuff  belongs in the news, and our military better get thier sh*t together on how to conduct war in the "information age."


As far as I'm concerned, the freedom fighters, the american ones, shouldn't be the ones doing this stuff.
Otherwise americans can just as well forget all their rants about muslim terrorists doing it, russians doing it....
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Offline Maverick

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2005, 01:54:37 PM »
Yeah fishu, all those kidnappings with video behedings, execution style back of the head shootings and beatings really pale in comparison to abu graib don't they.  :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Offline Staga

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2005, 02:12:34 PM »
You forgot executing wounded enemies and POWs... ooops it was US troops doing those... sorry.

Maverick; do you have a bit "selective" memory?
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Offline NUKE

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2005, 02:14:10 PM »
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Originally posted by Staga
You forgot executing wounded enemies and POWs... ooops it was US troops doing those... sorry.

Maverick; do you have a bit "selective" memory?


Staga, even if that was true....why don't you ever mention any other war crimes by the other side....or war crimes in other conflics?

Is it because you love to hate the US?

The executions of people by the Iraqis is plain for all to see.....on VIDEO....and you never say anything about it.

Then you claim the US is doing something worse.....with no evidense.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2005, 02:16:41 PM by NUKE »
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Offline Maverick

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2005, 02:30:48 PM »
Staga there are 2 examples of what you are talking about that I am aware of. One on video and the other as a possible drowning related to abu graib. In both cases the military is conducting prosecutions. Exactly how many prosecutions are the opposition cunducting for the beheadings? Please inform me.

My memory is not selective but you certainly seem to be. Please not in my posts that I did not make an excuse for what went on in abu graib or elswhere. There certainly seems to be different ways for each side to handle these situations however. I don't doubt that you won't see  the differences between them.
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Offline lada

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2005, 02:56:57 PM »
Are abused Iraqi allowed to travell to US and make accusation agains US millitary ?

During the last case, iraqi who arrived to US to speak about how they were abused by judged soldiers werent even allowed to join the trail. muhehehe ... ohh well..
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Offline NUKE

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2005, 02:58:46 PM »
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Originally posted by lada
Are abused Iraqi allowed to travell to US and make accusation agains US millitary ?

During the last case, iraqi who arrived to US to speak about how they were abused by judged soldiers werent even allowed to join the trail. muhehehe ... ohh well..


are abused and beheaded people's families allowed to travel to Iraq speak out in the Iraqi insurgent's courts? Oh well.
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Offline patrone

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2005, 07:52:45 PM »
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Originally posted by NUKE
are abused and beheaded people's families allowed to travel to Iraq speak out in the Iraqi insurgent's courts? Oh well.



They have no buisness being there to start with and, whenwas the last case of a "beheading"?

Not thoose 23 US soldiers they found in fallujha a couple of days ago, was it? Thats not official stuff......

Oh, you mean thoose CIA produced snuff videos? Hate to tell you this NUKE: they are not for real, sorry.
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Offline A_Clown

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The responsible ones always get away
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2005, 08:03:50 PM »
"I don't recall" how many obvious scandles there have been in my lifetime, where some "scapegoat" gets the blame for the corruption of a great many. Or some crazy obvious B.S. cover-up story.

Watergate
JFK
Iran-contra
Savings and Loan
Enron
 Those just flew off the top of my head

I trust my government sooooooo much, a part of me still thinks 911 was permitted to happen so we the people, would be compelled to accept the likes of the patriot act. I hope for humanities sake, that I am just paranoid.
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Offline AWMac

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2005, 08:16:45 PM »
Lets put the appropriate "SPIN" on this...

Let the World see the US Military beheading terrorist and playing it on World Wide television.

Lets show the World that American soldiers can as well shoot terrorist in the back of the heads....and show it proudly on television....

Makes it sound different now doesn't it?

For you Anti~American Euro ultra melons...get real. See the WHOLE picture.  Otherwise STFU!

With Love,

Mac

U.S. Army Retired
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