Author Topic: Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?  (Read 2431 times)

Offline tapakeg

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2005, 03:44:43 AM »
You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. I know deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you don't want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then question the manner in which I provide it. I prefer you said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand to post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2005, 02:00:24 PM by tapakeg »
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Offline Cobra412

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2005, 04:15:17 AM »
For starters Straffo who are you anyway.  Like that sig by the way.  "Land of the free".  Wonder how that came about.  

Why is it so many sites claim Norway claimed neutrality on 1 September 1939 then?  Same time frame Poland was being invaded by Germany.  Maybe that's just a misprint huh.

And oh I'm sorry Straga you sign a pact with a nation committing genocide and don't do anything once you learn of it.  Much better than just flat out being part of the Axis powers.  Atleast then you can claim you were forced to do so through threats of violence.  Instead of growing a pair of balls and fighting for what you believe in.    :aok
« Last Edit: January 16, 2005, 04:17:44 AM by Cobra412 »

Offline straffo

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2005, 04:30:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Cobra412
For starters Straffo who are you anyway.  Like that sig by the way.  "Land of the free".  Wonder how that came about.  


I can help you ,look up this words :
"franc"/"frank"/"franque"/"francus"/" franci" and what do they mean ?

It's the translation of my country name.

Quote
Why is it so many sites claim Norway claimed neutrality on 1 September 1939 then?  Same time frame Poland was being invaded by Germany.  Maybe that's just a misprint huh.

Norway was neutral before september 1939.

Offline patrone

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2005, 06:53:29 AM »
I thought really NUKE was the bigest blockhead here, posting only when his ****faced. But much to my suprise: Antoher star showed up!!! He´s so stupid that I am really enjoying his writting, a pure farse from start.... "Who are you Straffo?",,,,,,,hahahahahahaha....a real Gem!!

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Offline Crumpp

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2005, 09:14:48 AM »
Quote
*ROFL* Cobra you unimaginable twit. Norway was fighting the Germans one and a half years before the USA ... oh yes, that's right; the United States of America was neutral until December 11th 1941 when Germany declared war on you. I guess you didn't care about the mass killings of Jews huh? Moron!


SOME of you were fighting the Germans and some of you were fighting the allies.

Your country was conquered so quickly by the much better prepared for war Germans that it had little time to make any kind of organized governmental alliance beyond it's pre-invasion neurality.  It adopted more of a "save us" policy with the allies.

Quote
Gscholtz says:
Then Sir, you are not much aware.


Back your propaganda up with some facts.  

Crumpp
« Last Edit: January 16, 2005, 09:17:33 AM by Crumpp »

Offline Crumpp

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2005, 10:10:14 AM »
Quote
IIRC at least six prisoners have died in US custody in Afghanistan alone, and two US servicemen have been convicted of murder. One of the Abu Griab prison guards shot and killed an inmate. I'm not sure if his investigation is finished though.


I'm sure it is more than 6 but not by much.  You want to claim torture and conspiracy.  

Facts are less than 1 percent who did abuse prisoners still does not exceed prisoners who just died of natural causes or plain old accidents.  Some of the "prisoners" never even make to the stockades.  They die in the hospital because they were captured with mortal wounds.  Usually there is a thing called a "firefight" that proceeds capture.  Rarely do they just run up and jump in the handcuffs.  

Of course accidents and natural causes
 are never factors when it's the United States.  Those things only apply in the reality not in media world or USAhaters land.

Facts are abusing prisoners is illegal and those responsible are made to pay the price.  The US treats the accusation very seriously.

Where is the investigations into Nick Berg's torture and beheading by the terrorist?  Who have they put on trial to answer for these crimes?

How about:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3756552.stm

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/iraq/hostages.html

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB4CQLM03E.html

------------------------------------------------

HOSTAGES KILLED:

-Margaret Hassan, 59-year-old director of CARE international in Iraq and a citizen of Britain, Ireland and Iraq. Abducted Oct. 19 in Baghdad. Makes videotaped appeals for the withdrawal of British troops and the release of female Iraqi prisoners. On Nov. 15, her family in London and Al-Jazeera television say they believe she is the female hostage whose shooting death is shown in a videotape. The tape is not broadcast.

-Shosei Koda, 24, of Japan. Found decapitated, his body wrapped in an American flag, in Baghdad on Oct. 30. A video posted on the Internet had said he was kidnapped by followers of Jordanian militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who threatened his life unless Japan pulled its troops from Iraq. Japan rejected the demand.

-Three Macedonian contractors, Dalibor Lazarevski, Zoran Nastovski and Dragan Markovic. Abducted Aug. 21; Macedonian government confirms their deaths Oct. 22.

-Ramazan Elbu, a Turkish driver. A video posted Oct. 14 on the Web site of the Ansar al-Sunnah Army shows his beheading.

-Maher Kemal, a Turkish contractor. Internet posting Oct. 11 shows his beheading. A statement says he was captured by the Ansar al-Sunnah Army.

-British engineer Kenneth Bigley, 62. Kidnapped Sept. 16 with two American co-workers for Gulf Services Co. A video issued in al-Zarqawi's name threatens their lives unless the U.S. frees all Iraqi women in custody. The Americans are beheaded first; Bigley's decapitation is confirmed Oct. 10.

-Jack Hensley, 48, a civil engineer from Marietta, Ga. Seized Sept. 16; an Internet message posted Sept. 21 reports his killing by al-Zarqawi's followers.

-Eugene "Jack" Armstrong, 52, formerly of Hillsdale, Mich. Kidnapped Sept. 16; video made public Sept. 20 shows his beheading by al-Zarqawi.

-Akar Besir, a Turkish driver. Body found Sept. 21.

-Durmus Kumdereli, Turkish truck driver. Beheaded in video made public Sept. 13 but digitally dated Aug. 17. Video posted on a Web site that carries statements from al-Zarqawi's group.

-Twelve Nepalese construction workers. One beheaded and 11 shot in the head in a video posted on the Internet Aug. 31. Killings claimed by Ansar al-Sunnah Army.

-Enzo Baldoni, Italian journalist. Reported killed Aug. 26; Islamic Army in Iraq had threatened his life.

-Murat Yuce of Turkey. Shot dead in video made public Aug. 2 by followers of al-Zarqawi.

-Raja Azad, 49, engineer, and Sajad Naeem, 29, driver, both Pakistani. Slain July 28. The Islamic Army in Iraq said they were killed because Pakistan considering sending troops to Iraq.

-Georgi Lazov, 30, and Ivaylo Kepov, 32, Bulgarian truck drivers. Al-Zarqawi's followers suspected of decapitating both men.

-Kim Sun-il, 33, South Korea translator. Beheaded June 22 by al-Zarqawi's group.

-Hussein Ali Alyan, 26, Lebanese construction worker. Found shot to death June 12. Lebanon says killers sought ransom.

-Fabrizio Quattrocchi, 35, Italian security guard. Killed April 14. Unknown group, the Green Battalion, claimed responsibility.

-Nicholas Berg, 26, businessman from West Chester, Pa. Kidnapped in April and beheaded by al-Zarqawi's group.

-------------------------------------------------


Crummp

Offline Staga

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2005, 10:14:17 AM »
So as long as you kill/execute less hostages/woundeds/POWs than your enemy it's OK ?

Offline Crumpp

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« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2005, 10:22:59 AM »
Quote
Hmm ... if I'm not mistaken, of all the nations Germany conquered during WWII Norway fought the longest.


I am sure Norwegian history books tell you that Gscholtz!

When was Norway invaded by Germany?  9th of April 1940?  I am sure nobody from Poland bothered to fight back...

Just makes you want to start singing the national anthem right now doesn't it!

China fought the longest of any allied nation.  Norway rates about average for the smaller European nations in terms of length of time in combat.  On the lower end of the scale in terms of casualty numbers.

http://web.jjay.cuny.edu/~jobrien/reference/ob62.html

Crumpp

Offline Crumpp

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2005, 10:27:08 AM »
Quote
So as long as you kill/execute less hostages/woundeds/POWs than your enemy it's OK ?


Nice bait and switch?  Do you see that in my post?

Quote
Staga says:
Bottomline is it's time for you Yanks to step down from your high horse and admit you're scum just like your opponents.


However it is most certainly a black and white assumption on your part.

Staga, you just hate the United States no matter what the facts are and will spread lies that suit your view.

Crumpp

Offline Holden McGroin

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2005, 10:27:43 AM »
Crump he may be right.

China was not conquered by Germany, so it does not count.

Poland 4 weeks, France 6 weeks, Norway 8 weeks.

After the initial conquering, then resistance...
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Offline straffo

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2005, 10:30:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Crumpp
I am sure Norwegian history books tell you that Gscholtz!

When was Norway invaded by Germany?  9th of April 1940?  I am sure nobody from Poland bothered to fight back...

Just makes you want to start singing the national anthem right now doesn't it!

China fought the longest of any allied nation.  Norway rates about average for the smaller European nations in terms of length of time in combat.  On the lower end of the scale in terms of casualty numbers.

http://web.jjay.cuny.edu/~jobrien/reference/ob62.html

Crumpp



/agree
The chinese showed an Extraordinary resistance to the German ...
« Last Edit: January 16, 2005, 10:35:40 AM by straffo »

Offline Crumpp

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« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2005, 11:08:33 AM »
Quote
The chinese showed an Extraordinary resistance to the German ...


China refers to length of time in combat between an allied and axis nation.  Not to fighting Germany.  

It seems Norway does have a whole four day lead on the rest of the low countries.  The German forces in Denmark and Holland surrendered on 4 May and Norway held out until the 8th!!

To characterize Norway as "fighting" though is very misleading.  

Norway fought by a small resistance movement. So a small percentage of the Norwegien population fought and a greater percentage helped out in non-combat service support functions as member of the auxillery or underground. Risky but not combat.  The underground being expecially risky.

At least as many just existed and some even actively helped the Axis.

Here is a quick overview of the different resistance movements and their contribution to the allied war effort.

http://histclo.hispeed.com/essay/war/ww2/res/res-cou.html

http://www.feldgrau.com/a-norway.html

Crumpp
« Last Edit: January 16, 2005, 11:18:15 AM by Crumpp »

Offline Bodhi

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2005, 11:34:06 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
IIRC at least six prisoners have died in US custody in Afghanistan alone, and two US servicemen have been convicted of murder. One of the Abu Griab prison guards shot and killed an inmate. I'm not sure if his investigation is finished though.

You tell me Crumpp. How many prisoners have died in US custody in Afghanistan, Iraq and Guantanamo? I bet it's more than two.


FWIW, I believe Crump is pointing out that we, the US, are atleast the one combatant that is dealing with the problem of prisoner abuse, while the terrorists (pc named insurgents) fully condone their atrocities.

We made a mistake in our treatment of some prisoners, but I do not feel as a whole our whole military is abusing prisoners.  I believe that when all is said and done, the cases of US abuse will be isolated incidents from the rest of the military policy, and that in the end, it will be the terrorists that are truly seen as the evil in the middle east that are prolonging the suffering of the middle eastern people for their own personal gains (contrary to what their propaganda spouts).
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Offline rabbidrabbit

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2005, 12:03:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Staga
What ever it takes?

Bottomline is it's time for you Yanks to step down from your high horse and admit you're scum just like your opponents.
You torture prisoners and you also kill them (if you don't send them to prison without court hearing).

You are no better than a fanatic islamistic nutcases even if you try to claim otherwise.


jeeze staga,  I had respect for you up until this point here but thats really disgusting.  I never realized you were such a bigot.

Offline Holden McGroin

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2005, 03:38:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
... so did some Americans.


I would like a link... I think it would be an interesting read.  

I did a google for "American German Army" or several other iterations, and all I get is standard WWII history sites.

I type in anything with Nazi in it and I get facist hate discussion groups.
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