Author Topic: HO's *WERE* used ALOT in WWII  (Read 2766 times)

Offline Ouch

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HO's *WERE* used ALOT in WWII
« on: April 04, 2000, 01:34:00 PM »
<rant mode on>

Ok guys, I keep seeing all the posts about 'They didn't really use HO's during the war, they were too dangerous.'

Sorry, that's just BS.

In the Pacific, that was the recommended way to deal with Zero's.  Scissor into a headon.

Joe Bauer (CO VMF???, Guadelcannal) said 'Never refuse a Head on run on a Zeke."  They were considered gifts.  Hell, the Thach weave was used to set up an opponent for a headon run (I've got a copy of the original paper on it with diagrams and everything).

I realize that European aircraft were more solid, and had better firepower than the zeke, but even so, most of the Biographies of WWII pilots that I've read (and it's a lot of them) the pilots talk about using headon runs against other fighters.  

It all boils down to this, If you are at a disadvantage, your only choice was to either dive away (if you could) or turn into your opponent for a headon.  He either accepted the headon run and closed, or he sacrificed his initial advantage.

Now for my own preference, I'll only take the HO when my opponent is in a position of advantage (i.e. higher alt, better E).  If he choses at that point to continue his run into my guns, so be it.  What else am I suppose to do, keep evading, losing more and more E until he toasts me?

<rant off>

<ahhhhhh>  Glad to finally get that one off my chest.

Ouch out

Offline Ripsnort

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HO's *WERE* used ALOT in WWII
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2000, 01:44:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Ouch:
Now for my own preference, I'll only take the HO when my opponent is in a position of advantage (i.e. higher alt, better E).  If he choses at that point to continue his run into my guns, so be it.  What else am I suppose to do, keep evading, losing more and more E until he toasts me?
Ouch out

Ditto that for me, however, every now and then, I'll find a field full of low spits, doing HO's on everyone they run across.  I then feel compelled to drive a spit to the scene, and HO everyone in  my path.  Fire with fire. (Or is that Barbie-fire with Barbie-fire?)  

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[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 04-04-2000).]

Offline skernsk

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HO's *WERE* used ALOT in WWII
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2000, 02:23:00 PM »
I am here to have fun.....I'll engage as the situation dictates.  If I have to HO I will.

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Skernsk

eskimo

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HO's *WERE* used ALOT in WWII
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2000, 02:28:00 PM »
I found myself in a 5 v 1 last night and gladly HO'ed anyone within range, and got a few.  
eskimo

Offline daddog

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HO's *WERE* used ALOT in WWII
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2000, 02:36:00 PM »
I HO. Usually get the sharp end of the stick, but I still try.   When I can take them down with me I am happy. The two or three I survived I jumped out of my seat and banged my knees on desk.


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Offline Ripsnort

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HO's *WERE* used ALOT in WWII
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2000, 02:50:00 PM »
LOL daddog, that funny!  I can recall not too long ago having the gun hits volumn cranked up high on my woofers.  Sitting on auto-pilot kicked back in my chair, sipping a rare glass of wine, peace, serinity, nothing but the moan of the big  radial  turning...then PING PING BANG! Jumped right out of my seat, spilled the wine over the keyboard, rolled the chair over  the dogs tail, he jumps and yelps, I'm cursing cause I have  a mess...didn't even get the name of the enemy to tell him what he'd caused.  My wife  laughed, I laughed, and I've since turned down the gun hits sound on AH.  

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[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 04-04-2000).]

Offline Ghosth

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HO's *WERE* used ALOT in WWII
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2000, 03:05:00 PM »
Only one foolproof method that I'd found to avoid HO's comepletly. While it's rather hard if you simply must avoid them at all cost try this. Log off, go read a book.

Meantime, I'm up HOing anyone anytime I feel like it & haveing fun  

(Just kidding guys, Honest!)

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Offline mx22

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HO's *WERE* used ALOT in WWII
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2000, 03:31:00 PM »
I personally think that there is nothing wrong with HO. As said before on other discussion about HOs, it takes 2 to HO. So if you took your chances and died, don't whine later on.
Problem with people attacking HO from above is that they often don't pay attention to what plane below does. They see bogey below and simply dive. That I don't understand. Take your time, find general heading of the target, circle to his 6 or wait until he turns his 6 to you and then dive. Simple as that!
Now, why people complain about Spitfire being a HO king. I think problem here is that Spitfire currently more manuevarable then any other plane and thus often can turn 180 degrees to face attacking plane if you press your attack from far distance on his 6. Agian, you can easily avaid HO in this situation - simply break of attack, extend and try again or go high for a wingover; after a hard 180 degrees break turn, no Spitfire or any other plane would be able to follow the attacker.

mx22

Offline Pongo

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HO's *WERE* used ALOT in WWII
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2000, 04:14:00 PM »
Ouch
I have been vainly searching for my quote about a whole squadron of spits turning to HO a german unit...By that time in the war the Allied units where alot more aggressive than the Germans and sought almost any chance to engage..

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Offline fd ski

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HO's *WERE* used ALOT in WWII
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2000, 04:33:00 PM »
Pongo - i've read mutliple accounts of polish spitfire squadrons attecking LW head on.

If you want exact quotes - let me know. I don't have time to look for them know, but i remember reading them.

Remember that gunnery of average pilot in WWII was far lower then ours. So guns on the plane didn't matter nearly as much as the guy pulling the trigger.



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Offline daddog

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HO's *WERE* used ALOT in WWII
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2000, 05:00:00 PM »
LOL Ripsnort!  

fd-ski,

You move over from Warbirds or you doing both sims?

It is nice to see friendly faces here and there.  


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Offline Pongo

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HO's *WERE* used ALOT in WWII
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2000, 05:27:00 PM »
Ski
This was canadians but it was described as an SOP...I dont need a quote but thanks for the verification that this was not uncommon. The anti HOers seem to be keeping there heads down right know.
I some times get a bit steamed when a guy takes an advantagous position and wastes it on an ho...but when I have some one in a very bad position, I expect him to try it...
.
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Offline milnko

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HO's *WERE* used ALOT in WWII
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2000, 05:32:00 PM »
Last night, I (stupidly) attempted to avoid a HO in my NIKI against a Spit, we were co-alt, and I split-s'd left, he waited a sec for me to establish a heading then dived onto my 6, I was unable to out-run or out-turn him, he was awarded the kill.
I then typed on general channel "that was the last time I avoided the HO" from now on, I am simply not going to bend over and present my arse to someone.

While we are on the subject, prior to the B-17 getting nose guns the Germans would attack them HO all the time.

Speaking of BUFFs, why do people shoot em down AFTER they have dropped thier payload?
I never do, the reason being why give him a quick trip back to his base to rearm? Make him RTB in his BUFF, takes him outta the fight longer, givin your country time to save whatever it was he was bombing.

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Offline Swager

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HO's *WERE* used ALOT in WWII
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2000, 05:58:00 PM »
Man!  I love HOs!    

Reasons:

1)  I can finally get sights on target

2)  I have a 35% chance of causing damage or shooting down an enemy.

3)  Saves me the disgrace of getting outflown and then shot down.  With a HO, I just get shot down!

In fact,  I'm thinking of changing my handle to "HOHO!"    

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[This message has been edited by Swager (edited 04-04-2000).]
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Offline Udie

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HO's *WERE* used ALOT in WWII
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2000, 06:00:00 PM »
 I don't know if anybody has thought about it like this, but here's how I look at the HO issue.  It's realy simple and I can explain it in 2 words.

 HEADON = MERGE !!!!!

 Most fights are going to have at least 1 if not more.  If you see the bandit and he doesn't see you you can merge with out a HO, but that's a dead 6 merge    But if both pilots see each other chances are a HO of some sort will result.

 Wether or not you shoot is up to you, most of the time I'll try to use it to get a better position on my advasary with a lead turn or what not, but that's still a hi offset angle HO merge in my book (because I could still make a front aspect snap shot)

 anybody see this like me or am I completely insane?  ~

Udie