Author Topic: This is Disturbing.. if you're sane. (Read 2527 times)

spitfiremkv · « **Reply #90 on:** January 20, 2005, 06:35:03 PM »

well put RedTop!

one question: how come there isn't an inquiry into how that inteligence was acquired?

spitfiremkv · « **Reply #91 on:** January 20, 2005, 06:41:38 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by bustr
spitfiremkv, TAG your IT.

Since midnight won't tell us a bedtime story from the progressive<---think this is what liberals call themselves now> side of the issue. Please I took my turn. Tell us what the world would have been like from 2002-2008 if Bush had done what the progressives of the US and the world community at large wanted him to.

I'm sorry, I'm not in the mood to play Harry Turtledove tonight.

Reading your story:
I don't believe that the fact we didn't have any terrorist attacks in the US since 9/11 is in any way related to this country invading Iraq.

RedTop · « **Reply #92 on:** January 20, 2005, 06:49:07 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by spitfiremkv
well put RedTop!

one question: how come there isn't an inquiry into how that inteligence was acquired?

Well...I really have no idea. I'd gues to say is it is pure politics.

I am FOR...I repeat FOR what we have done and are doing in Iraq. I am not happy with HOW we got here. By that I mean...The wrong info given to our Leaders by operatives. How could it get so messed up?

I think Saddam committed atrosities by the 100's. I think he would be better dead. I think his sons dieing is a good thing. I think his party losing power was a good thing. Most everything that the U.S. Military has done I agree with.

Why isn't there heads rolling for WHY we went to war? To many people would be politically BASHED if the truth ever came out. Senators , Congressman , Reps. , U.N. Leaders and Members , CIA , FBI , The whole political process thru out the world would feel the ripples. Leaders from all over the WORLD would be at fault as well.

But NO ONE wants to hear that part. NO ONE wants to think that their precious counrty could have had the slightest bit to do with the War in Iraq. All the world wants to do as well as the political LEFT is sling Mud and crap.

"I'm not going to fix your mess" is all I hear from all over the spectrum.

Well I say...FIX IT AND STHU and lets get our Kids and Men home. Leave Iraq with as stable a form of government possible. If that takes a lil while then fine.

But quit the friggin mud slinging and get people started talkinig in a CIVIL tone about ways to make the leaders hear some constuctive thoughts about fixing the problem. Stop the Bashing and start the restoring of what is still even with its current division the GREATEST FRIGGIN PLACE IN THE WORLD TO HANG YOUR HAT AND CALL HOME. (IMO)

NUKE · « **Reply #93 on:** January 20, 2005, 06:51:47 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by RedTop
Why isn't there heads rolling for WHY we went to war? To many people would be politically BASHED if the truth ever came out. Senators , Congressman , Reps. , U.N. Leaders and Members , CIA , FBI , The whole political process thru out the world would feel the ripples. Leaders from all over the WORLD would be at fault as well.

You said you are for what we have done. I don't get it.

The reason no heads are rolling is that we had every logical reason to attack Iraq.

Quote

I am FOR...I repeat FOR what we have done and are doing in Iraq. I am not happy with HOW we got here.

bustr · « **Reply #94 on:** January 20, 2005, 06:53:17 PM »

spitfiremkv,

That's OK your not the only person in the last 4 years who hasent been in the mood to play Harry Turtledove. My parents were both Soviet Military analysts for NSA. They had to play Harry for several White Houses both Neanderthal and Progressive. I guess we knuckle draggers have to scratch pictures on the cave wall to try and see some of the enlightened big picture.

midnight Target · « **Reply #95 on:** January 20, 2005, 07:03:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by bustr
OK Midnight here's a fist installment.

2002-2004

2002 - OBL's network gets additional funding and plans ongoing diversionary attacks against western interests. Afganistan being in the boonies is put on a back burner by OBL.

.

Everything after this is just plain silliness. If we didn't go into Iraq, and we had placed our emphasis on our REAL enemy.. OBL and Al Queda... then his network would be in shambles and he would be either dead or so deep underground as to be useless...

Afghanistan holds elections... a democracy is born and the US is the golden child throughout the world. OBL or Al Queda would be committing suicide if they attacked again and would lose more and more support as time wore on..

RedTop · « **Reply #96 on:** January 20, 2005, 07:06:18 PM »

Nuke,

Logical reasons for being in IRAQ and what this country , myself were told AS the reasons we were going to war , right now IMO are 2 different things. I think we are there for a good reason.

I don't think Saddam was complying. I think he did everything he could to basically DARE the U.S. to war. I agree with SO MANY things in this war.

BUT , as a citizen I was told , as were many , that the primary reason , was WMD's. I really think there were..right up until the beginning of the war WMD's in IRAQ. Maybe and quite possibly not to the extent we were lead to think , but that there were some. But you know what? WE CANT OR DIDN't FIND EM. And for that reason I feel as a citizen mislead.

Could IRAQ be a beacon in the regieon? YOUR DAMNED RIGHT it can. I want those IRAQI people to have the freedoms that we have. IF THEY CHOOSE that. If not? If all they wanted was saddam out? Then pull thr troops out and tell them have at it. If that was the reason I was given then I could have gotten behind that as I feel Saddam was BAD FRIGGIN NEWS. I feel he WAS a threat to the surrounding countries and quiet possibly the U.S. given time.

I'm on your side as far as your logic as to why we are there in the sense of We're doing good things there.

But being told onething as a way to go to war...Then having it blow up in my face...I have a slight problem with that.

Tell me we are going to go and KICK Irans butt..N. Koreas Butt. Move on over to where ever else may need a butt kicking...fine...But make DANG sure the reason you give exists.

bustr · « **Reply #97 on:** January 20, 2005, 07:24:42 PM »

midnight,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
You miss used the quote from my 2002 muesing.

Originally posted by bustr
OK Midnight here's a fist installment.

2002-2004

2002 - OBL's network gets additional funding and plans ongoing diversionary attacks against western interests. Afganistan being in the boonies is put on a back burner by OBL.

Everything after this is just plain silliness. If we didn't go into Iraq, and we had placed our emphasis on our REAL enemy.. OBL and Al Queda... then his network would be in shambles and he would be either dead or so deep underground as to be useless...

Afghanistan holds elections... a democracy is born and the US is the golden child throughout the world. OBL or Al Queda would be committing suicide if they attacked again and would lose more and more support as time wore on..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Midnight don't quote it out of context. Thats called spin. Your audience will be mislead. It's kinda like how the 2nd Amendment is butchered.

Here is the full quote:

2002 - Bush accepts the UN's and EU's advice and does not invade iraq. Sanctions are expanded as a show of strength to Hussen. Hussen takes them to the bank. OBL's network gets additional funding and plans ongoing diversionary attacks against western interests. Afganistan being in the boonies is put on a back burner by OBL.

This is kinda like watching O'Reilly or Hannity & Colms.

rpm · « **Reply #98 on:** January 20, 2005, 07:34:42 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by NUKE
wow, great comback.

Now, tell me what I have said that you regard as false?

Sorry it took me so long to reply. I had to run some errands. C'mon NUKE, don't tell me you're wrapped so tight you can't take a joke.

If you want to get serious, show me all the WMD's we've discovered. Remember, THAT was the reason for invasion. Saddam was going to nuke us, no? Remember those infamous aluminum tubes?

bustr · « **Reply #99 on:** January 20, 2005, 07:42:50 PM »

By the way, I did perform a Harry Turteldove "what if" for 2002-2008. How come the progresives on this board won't match my step into future scenario projection? Worried about being labled foolish or something? <-----sorry skuzzy will limit it to this point.

bustr · « **Reply #100 on:** January 20, 2005, 07:52:47 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by rpm
Sorry it took me so long to reply. I had to run some errands. C'mon NUKE, don't tell me you're wrapped so tight you can't take a joke.

If you want to get serious, show me all the WMD's we've discovered. Remember, THAT was the reason for invasion. Saddam was going to nuke us, no? Remember those infamous aluminum tubes?

RPM here is the text of the part of the resolution that was voted for that allowed the invasion of Iraq WMD is what you chose to remember:

Whereas Iraq persists in violating resolution of the United Nations Security Council by continuing to engage in brutal repression of its civilian population thereby threatening international peace and security in the region, by refusing to release, repatriate, or account for non-Iraqi citizens wrongfully detained by Iraq, including an American serviceman, and by failing to return property wrongfully seized by Iraq from Kuwait; . . .

The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to--

(1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and

(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.

I guess spitfiremkv's fear of our suseptability to propaganda is factual. Whoda thunk it..

bustr · « **Reply #101 on:** January 20, 2005, 08:19:28 PM »

GScholz,

Care to take a stab at saying what the world wants from Bush that is unsuitable for our younger listeners to hear? It's obvious some numbers of people are angry and want a pound of flesh for their fear and uncertainty about the future. The WMD's were probably loaned out and destroyed long before we got there. So the intel was right but after the cow's got out.

What exactly is it you/ they want? Instead of all this snipeing, which you also seem to enjoy for the sport of it. watermelon happens, has happened, will happen. The only constant is watermelon happening is how life really works. Problem,, the watermelon is in our laps "now". And like in our fore fathers times, a portion of the populance wants somebody to pay for their inconvinience.

That inconvinience is manna from heaven for the terrorist. Means the population is chewing on itself rather than looking for him. Wow this means we have been terrorised and it is working. The population takes the easy way out and focuses its fear on Bush. Sun Tzu would be prowd.

Tumor · « **Reply #102 on:** January 20, 2005, 08:53:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by bustr
GScholz,....

What exactly is it you/ they want? Instead of all this snipeing, which you also seem to enjoy for the sport of it.

Your catching on quick

Leslie · « **Reply #103 on:** January 20, 2005, 10:03:17 PM »

You think the US is trying to hoard gasoline? What about your heating oil and plastics? Those are petroleum products.

Oil belongs to everybody on this planet, just like air. If someone tries to claim oil reserves for themselves, that is against international law and a darn good reason to go to war.

This planet's water supply is very limited, it's being more and more polluted all the time. What war would happen if water was the issue and not oil? Same thing far as I'm concerned, and worth having war over if someone tried to control it at their whim, like Saddam tried to do when he invaded Kuwait.

I think this war will be over one of these days. Who knows how long it will last? But one thing is fer sure, we're involved and there ain't no looking back. It's serious business.

Les

rpm · « **Reply #104 on:** January 20, 2005, 10:39:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by bustr
The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to--

(1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and

(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.

I guess spitfiremkv's fear of our suseptability to propaganda is factual. Whoda thunk it..

Yes, let's remember those QUOTES of impending doom.

Quote

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Top officials in the Bush administration took to the Sunday television talk shows to argue the president's case that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein is a global threat and must go.

On NBC's "Meet the Press," Vice President Dick Cheney accused Saddam of moving aggressively to develop nuclear weapons over the past 14 months to add to his stockpile of chemical and biological arms.

"And what we've seen recently that has raised our level of concern to the current state of unrest ... is that he now is trying, through his illicit procurement network, to acquire the equipment he needs to be able to enrich uranium -- specifically, aluminum tubes," Cheney said, referring to one of the elements for making nuclear weapons.

The tubes, Condoleeza Rice said, "are only really suited for nuclear weapons programs, centrifuge programs."

Rice acknowledged that "there will always be some uncertainty" in determining how close Iraq may be to obtaining a nuclear weapon but said, "We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."

Propaganda, It's not just for breakfast anymore.