Author Topic: African state new SC permanent member?  (Read 1430 times)

Offline patrone

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African state new SC permanent member?
« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2005, 07:58:20 PM »
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Originally posted by Martlet
All that says is they can add more permanent members as long as the US says it's ok.


Yes, but it also means it can be done.

And it also means, you could never ever get rid of France....................... .....

My real input is about what country from Africa would qualify for the SC among the mentioned 3.

For USA, and the rest of the security council, the situation with using "Vetos" might not be the best way to solve the problems that UN are facing.

But as you are against UN, you wouldīnt care to make it work, do you, Martlet?

Democratic choices are not in general your thing?

Offline Martlet

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African state new SC permanent member?
« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2005, 08:05:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by patrone
Yes, but it also means it can be done.

And it also means, you could never ever get rid of France....................... .....

My real input is about what country from Africa would qualify for the SC among the mentioned 3.

For USA, and the rest of the security council, the situation with using "Vetos" might not be the best way to solve the problems that UN are facing.

But as you are against UN, you wouldīnt care to make it work, do you, Martlet?

Democratic choices are not in general your thing?


Again, the answer is none.  None qualify.  Zip.  Zero.  Nada.  Nor will any ever become members.

Offline Wotan

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African state new SC permanent member?
« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2005, 08:10:17 PM »
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A tradeembargo against you would really mess you guys up.


Nonsense the US is the largest consumer economy in the world. That means we buy the worlds products (remember trade deficit?). Economic engagement is part of US foreign policy. Folks are less likely to go to war with you if they depend on you to feed their family. Thats why the US treats China as it does. No country will cut their nose off just because the mean 'ole USA doesn't respect your vaunted UN Charter. Maybe Sweden can test out a unilateral embargo and see if us US folks even blink an eye.

Without the US the UN can hardly afford to do much of anything let alone enforce a trade embargo. What Navy is going to take on that job?

No matter how much you shout, 'My opinion means something' it won't make it a reality.

Offline patrone

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African state new SC permanent member?
« Reply #48 on: February 01, 2005, 08:25:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan
Nonsense the US is the largest consumer economy in the world. That means we buy the worlds products (remember trade deficit?). Economic engagement is part of US foreign policy. Folks are less likely to go to war with you if they depend on you to feed their family. Thats why the US treats China as it does. No country will cut their nose off just because the mean 'ole USA doesn't respect your vaunted UN Charter. Maybe Sweden can test out a unilateral embargo and see if us US folks even blink an eye.

Without the US the UN can hardly afford to do much of anything let alone enforce a trade embargo. What Navy is going to take on that job?

No matter how much you shout, 'My opinion means something' it won't make it a reality.


I know that my opinion doesīnt mean anything, but do you know yours donīt?

Fact are facts and no matter of opinion, you are still a member of both UN and the SC.

I am pretty sure that some kind of embargos against both EU products and USA products have been threatned in diffrent negociations about trade, etc, etc.

Do not over estimate the ability to use such messures if needed.
The trade balance is not in our favour, so to say.

Please, never mind what I think, all is just hypotetical, but the question about adding a permanent member is not, it is a reality.

Offline Martlet

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African state new SC permanent member?
« Reply #49 on: February 01, 2005, 08:52:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by patrone


Please, never mind what I think, all is just hypotetical, but the question about adding a permanent member is not, it is a reality.


No it isn't.  It will never happen.

Offline Bodhi

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African state new SC permanent member?
« Reply #50 on: February 01, 2005, 09:37:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by patrone
Here

 

Sorry


Appreciate the apology.  
I regret doing business with TD Computer Systems.

Offline patrone

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African state new SC permanent member?
« Reply #51 on: February 01, 2005, 09:42:54 PM »
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Appreciate the apology.  



:D

Offline Finrod

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African state new SC permanent member?
« Reply #52 on: February 02, 2005, 05:47:13 AM »
Wotan, My thoughts exactly. Trade Embargo? Yeah thats likely to happen...NOT!

Offline Wotan

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African state new SC permanent member?
« Reply #53 on: February 02, 2005, 06:26:16 AM »
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I know that my opinion doesīnt mean anything, but do you know yours donīt?

Fact are facts and no matter of opinion, you are still a member of both UN and the SC.


You can have whatever opinion you like, but if that opinion is just based on an emotional re-action very few are likely to listen to it.

First the facts are, the USA does not have to abide by anything the UN puts forth whether we are members or not.  It may make you feel good to hide behind the skirt of the UN but even if you believe the UN to be some 'world government' the fact is it's the US who are the world's 'police men'. No matter how large the gaggle of crooks and despots you gather together none of them have the military, economic (as in independent from the US economy) or political power to force the US to comply.

Quote
I am pretty sure that some kind of embargos against both EU products and USA products have been threatned in diffrent negociations about trade, etc, etc.

Do not over estimate the ability to use such messures if needed.
The trade balance is not in our favour, so to say.


The US isn't wholly dependent on EU products, at least not to the degree that the EU is dependent on US consumers to buy EU products. If the EU were to start a trade war with the US then the affect of such a trade or sanction war would be huge on the EU and world  economy.

Certainly countries like Japan, Mexico, Canada and many others wont follow the EU if it goes that way, it would harm their economies exponentially.

So all your dreams of UN and EU power are just that.

Quote
Please, never mind what I think, all is just hypotetical, but the question about adding a permanent member is not, it is a reality.


It's more then hypothetical it defies reality. The best a poor Swede can do is  organize some sort and march and carry some clever slogan on a placard protetsting the evil US. However, nobody I know cares much about that outdated '60s hippie garbage. Most of us just laugh.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2005, 06:28:20 AM by Wotan »

Offline patrone

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African state new SC permanent member?
« Reply #54 on: February 02, 2005, 06:39:26 AM »
Well guys, the fact that EU will start selling weaponary system to china, might cause a scenary, whitch might inclued some goods being halted for trade between USA and EU.

Offline Martlet

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African state new SC permanent member?
« Reply #55 on: February 02, 2005, 07:42:47 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by patrone
Well guys, the fact that EU will start selling weaponary system to china, might cause a scenary, whitch might inclued some goods being halted for trade between USA and EU.


There will be no worthwhile trade embargo between the US and EU.  The two are too economically dependent.  That theory is about as stupid as your African permanent SC member theory.

Offline Wotan

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African state new SC permanent member?
« Reply #56 on: February 02, 2005, 09:22:27 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by patrone
Well guys, the fact that EU will start selling weaponary system to china, might cause a scenary, whitch might inclued some goods being halted for trade between USA and EU.


More nonsense, the US doesn't rely on China to buy our products be they military or otherwise. The US buys China's products.

I am sure the US arms and weapons manufacturers would like to sell their goods to China as well but in the overall scheme of things it doesn't matter if China makes its own weapons systems or buys from else where.

The Chinese aren't stupid enough to start a war and cut off one of hands that helps feed it.

I know its a hard thing for you to grasp but the US is the largest consumer economy in the world. That means the US market is vital to the world economy.

Any war or economic sanction or embargo that upsets that not only hurts America but it hurts the world.

Offline Zulu7

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African state new SC permanent member?
« Reply #57 on: February 02, 2005, 09:45:02 AM »
Why do we need a security council? We have the good old American govt to tell us all what to do, how to do it etc. And if we don't agree well they have lots of big guns to make us agree!

We can all have freedom as long as its Bush's version.

:rolleyes: :lol

Offline Zulu7

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African state new SC permanent member?
« Reply #58 on: February 02, 2005, 09:47:36 AM »
Oh and I'd go for South Africa as the new SC member. think their military would be the most effective.

Offline Otto

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African state new SC permanent member?
« Reply #59 on: February 02, 2005, 09:50:41 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan
More nonsense, the US doesn't rely on China to buy our products . The US buys China's products.

 


You got that right...!   Try and find something in a store for less than $20.00 that's NOT made in China....:(