Leviathan's Miraculous Spit 5 Move

[madness]

SLO, when I see my enemy doing what you described I go into a steep dive to regain E while he is going vertical I get seperation to prepare for my next out of plane manouver, then its back to sqaure one and I can do it all the way to the deck. Eventually he will overshoot or you will be able to go up with him.

[Dead Man Flying]

I love when Typhoons try to do that to me, SLO.  "Try."

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Urchin]

Well, in my opinion the best "counter" is to just chop throttle on your BnZ pass.  You lose the option of zooming, but you'll still be going faster then the other guy is.  Ideally, you get a shot at a target that has misjudged your closing speed and it is going quite slowly.. unless he presents his side to you it is usually a fairly easy shot to hit.  

If you miss it, just do a quarter turn away from the target (i.e if he is headed to your right when you take the shot, make a ~45 degree heading change to your left), and "extend".  Go try to kill someone else instead.

[Mugzeee]

"I wish I had a film to show, but basically it goes like this, one moment he is going away from you - the next he is coming towards you. Its a reversal, but without appearing to nose up or even go into a turn, from my view it looks like he can spin the Spit 5 on its center axis."

As i re-read the original post it appears that Seagoons question isnt actuall being adressed or answered here. Either that or his discription of what he is seeing on his FE is different from what he is actually seeing? Seagoon?

[pellik]

Originally posted by Mugzeee
"I wish I had a film to show, but basically it goes like this, one moment he is going away from you - the next he is coming towards you. Its a reversal, but without appearing to nose up or even go into a turn, from my view it looks like he can spin the Spit 5 on its center axis."

As i re-read the original post it appears that Seagoons question isnt actuall being adressed or answered here. Either that or his discription of what he is seeing on his FE is different from what he is actually seeing? Seagoon?

I tried to address it a little bit. He is seeing the bastardized version of a wingover we have in AH2 as of late. Basically the plane is taken only slightly nose up until past the stall. The throttle is cut and hard rudder forces a controlled spin, which is exited when power is returned. The counter is to spot when your opponent cuts throttle in the horizontal and get above or below him.

-pellik

[Mugzeee]

Duh.....yes Pellik. I see it now.  I believe you are correct.
"Basically the plane is taken only slightly nose up until past the stall."
Past stall attitude...or actually just a little above the stall speed?
Thanks.

[wetrat]

As urchin said, your best bet is to chop throttle and go for the shot. Mind you, you shouldn't bother in planes that don't slow down quickly or stiffen up at high speeds (KI-84.... never ever ever go for a shot on someone doing this unless you can get sub-310mph). Say the spit you're going after does this move turning left... after you go for your shot, IMMEDIATELY roll right and extend away, zoom up, rinse, and repeat. Or if you're a ninny, go hug your ack and whine about spit dweebs

When you do this, most people won't take your bait and keep turning in to you after they miss their shot... the first time. Or the second, and maybe not the third, but eventually they'll either give up and run away or take the bait and die. In the not-so-uber-turning planes, it's much more difficult to get a good shot on your target, but if they take the bait you'll at least get to saddle up.

[pellik]

Originally posted by Mugzeee
Duh.....yes Pellik. I see it now.  I believe you are correct.
"Basically the plane is taken only slightly nose up until past the stall."
Past stall attitude...or actually just a little above the stall speed?
Thanks.

This move isn't really one of  the ones in my repitior, as the plane I fly works a little bit different down by the stall.

My understanding is you want to do the throttle cut at a low enough speed that you drop below your power off stall attitude, and exploit the stall for a quick spin. Restoring power should quickly end things when desired.

Origionally posted by wetrat
As urchin said, your best bet is to chop throttle and go for the shot. Mind you, you shouldn't bother in planes that don't slow down quickly or stiffen up at high speeds (KI-84.... never ever ever go for a shot on someone doing this unless you can get sub-310mph). Say the spit you're going after does this move turning left... after you go for your shot, IMMEDIATELY roll right and extend away, zoom up, rinse, and repeat. Or if you're a ninny, go hug your ack and whine about spit dweebs

When you do this, most people won't take your bait and keep turning in to you after they miss their shot... the first time. Or the second, and maybe not the third, but eventually they'll either give up and run away or take the bait and die. In the not-so-uber-turning planes, it's much more difficult to get a good shot on your target, but if they take the bait you'll at least get to saddle up.

Wetrat: The move seagoon was describing isn't a BnZ reversal. It's a stall fight reversal. Typically it will get thrown out when both planes are already down near the 130mph range, following a bit of a vert. scissors. Cutting throttle at the bottom end of a vert. scissors will usually result in death, and won't help  you counter this.  Your best bet if you spot this is to pull up above his 6 line and wait until after he reverses to take your shot.

-pellik

[Urchin]

Oh, the way I interpreted the question was exactly as a typical "BnZ reversal"...  if I set my plane up properly you really don't see it move, because all of my movement is in plane with yours, so all you see is the nose coming around.

[wetrat]

Originally posted by pellik
Wetrat: The move seagoon was describing isn't a BnZ reversal. It's a stall fight reversal. Typically it will get thrown out when both planes are already down near the 130mph range, following a bit of a vert. scissors. Cutting throttle at the bottom end of a vert. scissors will usually result in death, and won't help  you counter this.  Your best bet if you spot this is to pull up above his 6 line and wait until after he reverses to take your shot.

-pellik

Oh... well then. If you get reversed on in a stall fight it's as much because of you making a mistake as it is him pulling some trick

[gofaster]

Don't forget that full flaps on the Spit V give it more lift than full flaps on the Spit IX.  Same frame but heavier engine, heavier nose.  Or at least it should if modeled accurately.  Spit V should also have slower stall speed.

[TracerX]

I tried to download and view Leviathn's film but got the following error.  Anyone else have this trouble?

Windows Media Player cannot play the file. One or more codecs required to play the file could not be found.

I am having a hard time finding the right codec.  Any ideas?

By the way, I am using Windows Media Player 10

[TracerX]

Got it to work.  Had to downoad the Mpeg-2 DVD codec from Nvidia, then it worked nicely.  By the way, Leviathn, you suck!  

Wish I could suck as bad as you though.  

[Grizzly]

Originally posted by Seagoon
Hi Guys,

I've been waxed by Leviathan more times than I can count, basically when I realize he's in a sector, I start avoiding Spits.

He has one move I don't understand and can't overcome, even in a Zeke.

I wish I had a film to show, but basically it goes like this, one moment he is going away from you - the next he is coming towards you. Its a reversal, but without appearing to nose up or even go into a turn, from my view it looks like he can spin the Spit 5 on its center axis.

- SEAGOON

This is why it's so important to not seek the HO shot. The very moment you are pulling the trigger you should be starting your initial maneuver. I think I can pretty much assure you that by the time you pass Deadman on the merge, he has nearly completed his turn.

There's another thing happening here. AH doesn't show you the exact detail of what the other plane is doing, if it did it wouldn't be accurate timewise. What to look for is when he is still over 500 yards out, you might think he's going to pass by you. Then in the last 500 yards, he seems to quickly close in on you. You are now in deep doo doo.

[Pic]

Anyone ever heard of the Energy Egg?

you can out turn anyone if you use and understand it.