Author Topic: Leviathan's Miraculous Spit 5 Move  (Read 3065 times)

Offline Seagoon

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Leviathan's Miraculous Spit 5 Move
« on: February 04, 2005, 11:03:02 AM »
Hi Guys,

I've been waxed by Leviathan more times than I can count, basically when I realize he's in a sector, I start avoiding Spits.

He has one move I don't understand and can't overcome, even in a Zeke.

I wish I had a film to show, but basically it goes like this, one moment he is going away from you - the next he is coming towards you. Its a reversal, but without appearing to nose up or even go into a turn, from my view it looks like he can spin the Spit 5 on its center axis.

SO AH2 Experten... Hows he doing it and how do you counter it???

I fly the Yak, so I end up bleeding E trying to get behind him till I'm so low and slow I'm chopped up by 20mm. And BNZ doesn't work so hot when hes ALWAYS coming towards you...

- SEAGOON
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
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Offline YUCCA

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Leviathan's Miraculous Spit 5 Move
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2005, 11:40:28 AM »
tell ya what .. chop your throttle early kick rudder to help you slow down.  Then vuahla counters most reversals and gives yoru a shot.

Offline Roscoroo

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Leviathan's Miraculous Spit 5 Move
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2005, 01:07:36 PM »
Lev has one of the "Fastest" snap turns in the game ..

I'd say that your reaction is probely alot slower the His .

As for what he ussually does Is he avoids the ho/merge incoming players plane and shot ... and he goes for the early turn to get/beat you in the 1st turn , or the quick snap manuver.

in a plane like a yak i doubt that u'll beat him with a turn ... but an extend and or a higher manuver may give you the chance that you need .

Watch films is my suggestion ... pay attention to his "E" state and when he starts his manuver .

P.s. the film viewer is still broken in think though ..
Roscoroo ,
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Offline Seeker

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Leviathan's Miraculous Spit 5 Move
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2005, 01:46:14 PM »
HO the swine and run; it's your only chance!

Offline Seagoon

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Leviathan's Miraculous Spit 5 Move
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2005, 04:16:10 PM »
Ok, so how is the Levi "Quick Snap" Done? I'm familiar with a snap roll to reverse direction but his seems far more effective and almost instantaneous, also there seems to be very little E loss.

I want this power! :D

PS: Thanks for the HO and run, I've been trying that but he won't fly straight at me its always sideways and then he's behind me the next moment. Kind of like this

1) Me ---> Him ---->
2) Me --->
              <---Him
3) Him ----> Me------ X
                                 
- Seagoon
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

Offline Jnuk

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Leviathan's Miraculous Spit 5 Move
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2005, 04:56:52 PM »
errr
+ = confused!

:aok

Offline mechanic

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Leviathan's Miraculous Spit 5 Move
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2005, 10:17:59 AM »
ok, if i'm not mistaken here is how it is done in theory...


as he passes you at maybe D50 he starts his reversal, by the time you have looked back and he is in view he has 75% completed the turn, and therefore in the next second or two he is right on your tail flying level.


its no speacial trick as far as i know, just perfect speed/trim/control co-ordination.

add to that the fine judgement to know exactly how much speed he needs to gain/lose, exactly which direction you will be going, exactly how much he needs to prepare for this turn even at D400 infront of you.


basically he has already turned before he passes you, he simply finishes the hard part of the turn just as you get him back in vis on your 6.


thats my take on it anyhow.



my advice, HO him and run, just like seeker said :p
And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Leviathan's Miraculous Spit 5 Move
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2005, 10:50:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Seagoon

I wish I had a film to show, but basically it goes like this, one moment he is going away from you - the next he is coming towards you. Its a reversal, but without appearing to nose up or even go into a turn, from my view it looks like he can spin the Spit 5 on its center axis.
 


If that is how it actually looks I would like to see a film of it!

you say one moment , then say next how long is these moments? 1 sec, 2 sec, 1/2 sec? what is the distance of separation?

He prob is beating you with the lead turn and angles he gained by chomping at the bit first.........


still would like to see that reversal though, unless he is like 1.5k or more away when he is reversing, if the latter and is 1.5K or  further out he is maneuvering, you just not visually able to pick up on it as easily

thats my opinion anyhow.........then he is repeating the reversal again ( same way ) on the merge
« Last Edit: February 05, 2005, 10:52:26 AM by TequilaChaser »
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline nopoop

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Leviathan's Miraculous Spit 5 Move
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2005, 01:12:00 PM »
Well the film viewer is broken but there is quite a few films at the BK site.

Morph has a film but his film site is broke :D

Hoolie showed me something once. You have to have the ability to fly your plane in a way to center the con in your side/side up or up view so it is crossing left to right/right to left or up to down in the center of your screen ( the middle ) during the reverse.

Watched him over the shoulder as he did it again and again.

In that way when you go to front view on the pass through the con flys right through your gunsite.

So once you have the ability to judge the E states so you know how much of an up angle you will need for the reverse you adjust your flight path in the reversal to center the con in your pass through views..

Then when he pops out front just pull the trigger.

Easy..

LOL
nopoop

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Offline Roscoroo

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Leviathan's Miraculous Spit 5 Move
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2005, 01:19:41 PM »
Well if you guys pay the bribes ... I might sell ya a copy of  "Spit dweebs secret manual of kill"


Any idea what i should charge Morph ?? i was thinking 2 ewe's and a weeks worth of perks..

:D
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Offline humble

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Leviathan's Miraculous Spit 5 Move
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2005, 02:05:57 PM »
Way back when in another lifetime I used to fly 1 on 1's with Leviathan and Jase in the TA. He has always had what he calls a "rudder slap". Normally I'd see it on the merge in some form or another. Basically what he has is an uncanny ability to optimize energy state vs positioning. When your speeding up to "catch him" he's playing angles with you....when your going angles he's hording E. Whats happening (i'm guessing a bit) is that he's off the gas nose high and when he stomps on the rudder (at proper moment) it swings the nose down and thru on the edge of the stall....the plane damm near auto rotates around itself as it falls thru the stall. In effect its a type of rope and you need to treat it as such....keep your nose down establish a bit of lateral seperation and fly up and thru the move...

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Offline Dead Man Flying

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Leviathan's Miraculous Spit 5 Move
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2005, 03:12:48 PM »
I believe Mechanic has this maneuver most correctly identified here.  Basically, the move consists of a well-timed barrel roll that forces the other guy out in front as he comes in with some speed to spare.  The latest film I made (Stuck in the Middle -- turned into a cinematic masterpiece by Morpheus) captures a lot of me performing this move against multiple enemies.

The reason the move looks so weird from the view of the victim is because two things happen at once.  First, I am turning into the bandit.  Second, the bandit maneuvers in a way that reduces his angle to me as well.  So what happens is that both myself and my opponent work to reduce the angle between his six and my nose.  From within the game, this looks remarkably like I'm pivoting in place when in reality it is a combination of geometric events working together.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Offline streetstang

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Leviathan's Miraculous Spit 5 Move
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2005, 06:13:52 PM »
Levi's film in WMV format should be working. I put the link for it in my movies section. Most of my other links wont be working due to a problem I had with Levis' film when i introduced it. I broke the links and moved the other films to another one of my servers but his film will work.

http://www.furballunderground.com/Leviathn.mpg

Thats the link.

Right click and save as.

Morph

Offline Urchin

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Leviathan's Miraculous Spit 5 Move
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2005, 12:13:48 AM »
Well, here is how it works in theory.  

I made a gay little paint thingie that probably won't illustrate much unless you use your imagination, but I tried.  

Plane A is tooling along when plane B comes up behind him looking to shoot at him.  

At around 1,000 yards or so (time 1 in GPT [gay paint thingie]), plane A begins a fairly gentle turn towards plane B.  The goal is to get the top of the canopy pointed at plane B.  Plane B facilitates this by flying right at Plane A, because he is trying to shoot him.  

At around 500-600 yards or so, plane A rolls wings level and begins to move "out of plane", in other words, he pulls up.  Plane B will take the shot, and 99% of the time miss.  About .5% of the time he will land a hit on plane A.  The other .5% of the time he kills plane A (usually this is in a plane with 30mm or Hizookas).  The "timing" on this part (time 2 in GPT) varies depending on how fast plane B is closing.  Sometimes you won't start your 'break' until he is 300 or 400 yards away, sometimes you will start it much farther away.  The timing is everything.. pull up to soon and plane B easily follows, and blows you away.. pull up to late and plane B has already blown you away.

By time 3 in GPT, plane B has missed his shot and is now pulling around for another one.  In other words, he is turning towards plane A, after flying behind or underneath him.  This is a mistake.  Most people in the MA have learned this is a mistake, so it is much harder to get someone to swallow the bait and turn back into you, normally they'll continue their "extension" to the nearest ack or friend for help.  Rewind a little... in between time 2 and time 3, plane A is rolling his aircraft to keep an eye on plane B (I usually skip this step, or do it backwards.. I line up the guy with the back of my canopy so he'll fly through the gunsight as he "extends" or turns back into me).  Anyway, as plane B pulls back into plane A, he squirts out in front simply because the faster a plane is going, the larger the turning circle is for that plane.  

At time 4, the hapless plane B has flown right in front of plane A.  If plane A's pilot has good aim, or Hizookas, or both, plane B is as dead as dog****.

That, in a nutshell, is Leviathn's "magic move".  

Get him to take you to the DA and bounce him a few times with film running.  Watch the film, then practice it.  Note, practicing this move entails flying lower and slower than the enemy planes around you, which is probably why Leviathn is the only one left that uses this move.  The rest of us have got disgusted and quit, and nobody that has been playing for less than 3 years or so actually wants to learn A2A fighting.

gay paint thingie

You'll have to use your imagination heavily.  This is from a top-down view.. so you obviously can't see the vertical part between time 2 and 3.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2005, 12:16:08 AM by Urchin »

Offline Flyboy

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Leviathan's Miraculous Spit 5 Move
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2005, 12:35:42 AM »
LOL urchin :)