Damage Model

[hitech]

Collision are detection on 1 FE  because it the best option availible.

It is hard to grasp but there realy is not 1 reality when playing AH, each person is seeing the same thing, but at different times.

But when you put 2 moving objects on different FE's. Realitive to each other, people are seeing different things.

So you end up with 4 choices when doing anytype of collision detection between 2 different clients. (Collision detection is also bullet collisions)

With bullets.
1. The target does the detection.
2. The shooter does the detection
3. They both do detection and if they agree a collison happens.
4. They both do detection and if either sees a collsion the hit happens.

With bullets the most importent thing is that when you see your bullets hit a plane, the bullet does damage. With any but option #1 & 4 this would not be the case.Infact. you would have to shoot where the plane isn't to score hits, and you would never know where the spot to shoot would be, and it would also change with each players connection.

With plane collsion, There primary puprose is to prevent people from holding down the triger and flying threw another plane.

Now as you see your plane collide with the player, the other player is seeing you miss him most of the time.(If both FE detect a collison both are damaged) So would you wrather be flying your plane and have an eneymy plane dive 100 yards behind you, and sundenly get destroyed by a collision, or would you wrather have it work as it does now.

When two planes Ho each other and make contact LOL crash into each other why does just one plane have damage and go down?

So your basic statement realy needs a definition of what two planes are. If you refere to two planes as the other player and you, then if they do both collide they both take damage. And if only one collides only one takes damage. The basic thing to understand is that the 2 players did not occupy the same space at the same time.

Btw conisder this only an explination, Im not into debating this topic.

HiTech

[Swoop]

Ok Vox mate, from one Brit to another, here's how you start a thread like this:


"Ok, what I did was test the damage model and I found something strange.

I took a mosquito up 10 times in a row and flew around until I found a buff to attack.  10 times in a row I got a pilot wound, never got any other damage.  HT could you take a look at these 10 films I've hosted and see if there's some odd bug or if I was just really unlucky and it's all a coincidence even though the odds should be millions to one."

Repeat for the 190 issue.  Repeat for the 109 issue.  Repeat ad nausium providing solid evidence every time.

And should you find at any time that it's not actually every time x issue happens.......

[F1Bomber]

Hitech that bring back memorys for myself in ah1, flying in a yak on an enemy runway on the deck and a b17 ups and i would suddenly pull up at the last moment, my FE would not detect a collision but because of internet latency on his FE he would see a yak fly right through his bombers and as a result the whole b17 formation would blow up and i would save all my much needed ammo.

Well its fixed now, was fun though.

[Urchin]

Originally posted by hitech

With bullets.
1. The target does the detection.
2. The shooter does the detection
3. They both do detection and if they agree a collison happens.
4. They both do detection and if either sees a collsion the hit happens.

With bullets the most importent thing is that when you see your bullets hit a plane, the bullet does damage.

With any but option #1 & 4 this would not be the case.Infact. you would have to shoot where the plane isn't to score hits, and you would never know where the spot to shoot would be, and it would also change with each players connection.

HiTech

Anyone ever played a game like that?  I have, it is a pain in the bellybutton to land hits on someone because you have to shoot in FRONT of them on your FE so the hits land on them on their FE.  

And it is different for every player.. so sometimes you've gotta lead by 2 meters, sometimes you have to lead by 20.  

I didn't play that game for very long... anyone else who ever played Mechwarrior outta know what I'm talking about.

[wombatt]

Originally posted by hitech
Collision are detection on 1 FE  because it the best option availible.

It is hard to grasp but there realy is not 1 reality when playing AH, each person is seeing the same thing, but at different times.

But when you put 2 moving objects on different FE's. Realitive to each other, people are seeing different things.

So you end up with 4 choices when doing anytype of collision detection between 2 different clients. (Collision detection is also bullet collisions)

With bullets.
1. The target does the detection.
2. The shooter does the detection
3. They both do detection and if they agree a collison happens.
4. They both do detection and if either sees a collsion the hit happens.

With bullets the most importent thing is that when you see your bullets hit a plane, the bullet does damage. With any but option #1 & 4 this would not be the case.Infact. you would have to shoot where the plane isn't to score hits, and you would never know where the spot to shoot would be, and it would also change with each players connection.

With plane collsion, There primary puprose is to prevent people from holding down the triger and flying threw another plane.

Now as you see your plane collide with the player, the other player is seeing you miss him most of the time.(If both FE detect a collison both are damaged) So would you wrather be flying your plane and have an eneymy plane dive 100 yards behind you, and sundenly get destroyed by a collision, or would you wrather have it work as it does now.



 

So your basic statement realy needs a definition of what two planes are. If you refere to two planes as the other player and you, then if they do both collide they both take damage. And if only one collides only one takes damage. The basic thing to understand is that the 2 players did not occupy the same space at the same time.

Btw conisder this only an explination, Im not into debating this topic.

HiTech

Thx for the explaination HT.
LOL can't say as I fully understand but hey thats my short comings:)

Although not as common as some would think some people do ram on purpose and some how get away with it and score a kill.

I was just thinking it would be more life like and fair if neither pilot got points for collisions.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Urchin
anyone else who ever played Mechwarrior outta know what I'm talking about.

Exactly the game I thought of as I started to read your post.

[VoX]

Thank you Hitech for the response a little laim at first but hey its your sim and you answered my real question when someone else put it more elloquently than I did.

Thank you swoop for your advice I take it and agree I may have been slightly annoyed when I started the thread and yours would have been a much better way to start the thread.

Howitzer I am trying to be as immoliant as possible but I am at a loss as to your attempt to turn the discussion into a personal attack on me?

The Real question for those few that obviously did not get it was HOW ARE THE HITS PROGRAMMED  I was not questioning anyones knowledge of planes or physics, just how it was programmed in the game.


Anyhow no hard feelings sort of got there in the end.


9./JG54_VoX
'Better to be thought of as an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!'

[wombatt]

Ok another question.
Why or how does the enigine get shot out in a front engine airplane when you have clearly been shot in da BUTT:rolleyes:

[Howitzer]

Originally posted by VoX
Thank you Hitech for the response a little laim at first but hey its your sim and you answered my real question when someone else put it more elloquently than I did.

Thank you swoop for your advice I take it and agree I may have been slightly annoyed when I started the thread and yours would have been a much better way to start the thread.

Howitzer I am trying to be as immoliant as possible but I am at a loss as to your attempt to turn the discussion into a personal attack on me?

The Real question for those few that obviously did not get it was HOW ARE THE HITS PROGRAMMED  I was not questioning anyones knowledge of planes or physics, just how it was programmed in the game.


Anyhow no hard feelings sort of got there in the end.


9./JG54_VoX
'Better to be thought of as an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!'

Not a personal attack hoss, just letting you know some folks don't like being told that they don't know anything and not to post when they have every right to  =)

[Kweassa]

Deflection angle.

 In A2A gunnery, pure 6O'c shots are actually very unlikely. For instance, my personal preference is to rise up from the low 6 of the enemy plane so he will not detect me approaching, not to mention a shot taken from that angle has a good chance of damaging the engine, wingroots, rear section, and etc etc.

[Naudet]

Urchin, yes i did play MW around one weekend. After that i was totaly pissed of because of the gunnery.

The "What you see is what you get" principle is the only usefull for most MMOGs i think, especially sims.

[Ghosth]

Wombat,

Have you ever actually seen the fuselage of a WWII era fighter or bomber?

They are aluminun not much thicker than pop cans over aluminum ribs. They are also 95% empty space.

So, if you shoot a pop can on one end with your .22, can the bullet traverse the can & come out the other end?

Or in this case, hit the back of the engine, (explode if its a 20mm) and do damage?

[humble]

Now as you see your plane collide with the player, the other player is seeing you miss him most of the time.(If both FE detect a collison both are damaged) So would you wrather be flying your plane and have an eneymy plane dive 100 yards behind you, and sundenly get destroyed by a collision, or would you wrather have it work as it does now.


Wow....

SO both parties could recieve damage in a collision IF both frontends detect a collision.

[Murdr]

Originally posted by humble
Now as you see your plane collide with the player, the other player is seeing you miss him most of the time.(If both FE detect a collison both are damaged) So would you wrather be flying your plane and have an eneymy plane dive 100 yards behind you, and sundenly get destroyed by a collision, or would you wrather have it work as it does now.


Wow....

SO both parties could recieve damage in a collision IF both frontends detect a collision.

IIRC that was tested and was very hard to do on purpous.  But I have witnessed it in game were both took a collusion, where the friendly voxed a ram complaint, and I was able to assure them that the other guy is going down too.

The worst ram is those warping bomber drones.

[Zaphod]

I'm curious,

Given that there is always some lag present (even say 20 or 30 ms) would that mean that if both see a collision then one pilot would hit first...in terms of lag, because his FE would detect it sooner?  If that's the case then does the other plane hit parts then, or is it possible to fly through the explosion without being harmed at all?

Obviously if the collision damage only results in partial damage and not total evaporation then there is the rest of the plane to hit.  I'm really just curious on the total evaporation scenario.

I have seen players take collision damage from apparent collisions with my plane from 200 yards behind me  (that would be on the rare occasion....they are normally near miss situations) and suffered no damage.   I have also been in the position to be damaged in collision with other plane receiving none but.....I saw the collision on my end.  I have also suffered damage in a collision with another plane which was also damaged in the collision.

This system makes about as much sense as can be with current technology....I'm just curious about the above.  Especially the "first plane FE that see's damage hits whole plane of other, while second plane that sees on his FE only hits parts" section.

Zaphod