Time to Declaw the F4U-1C

[Rocket]

I fly the 1D.  I get the kills on convergence with the .50s just fine.  I grab a 1C to hunt buffs and vulch.  The F4U is my main ride and it has been since it came out.  I do jump in a dweebfire for base defense now.  Damn hawg takes too long to get to speed and slow always = dead  

Rocket

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The Red Dragons
Fierce and Bold
With Honour and Courage
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www.reddragons.de

[Kieren]

I can definitely see both sides of this one.

Yesterday I was looking for buffs. I took up a 1C and was strolling around, when I encountered another Hawg, and he was a bit higher. Well, he naturally rolled over on what appeared to be an easy meal. He dove from my high six, I did the roll/split-S routine, and he overshot. He managed some damage on my vator, and I thought I was done.  Luckily he tried a little too little to press his E advantage, and I was able to turn inside him and got him with a snapshot. He was dead.

Next came the 109. This guy played it better, working for my rear quarter and making passes. He would hit me, pull up, and roll over. I could roll and just about meet him on the under side of his barrel roll, but he just barely stayed out of range. Barely. He eventually took the other half of my vator and I went in. He congratulated me later on flying so well with a damaged vator- asked him how he knew it was hurt and he told me he could see it! Now that is keeping the fight close!

My point? Had I had all the vator at the beginning of the fight I would have killed him on the first barrel roll, easily. The snapshot would have made what was a very good fight impossible.

I wound up getting about 4-5 B26's, 2-3 C47's, 1-2 B17's, and various other a/c in the 1C (all in about an hour's time). I don't think I could have gotten so many buffs so easily in the 1D. I'm not sure how I feel about that. :/

[indian]

If we declaw the -1C whats next everyone will complain about a different plane. If you are getting beat by the -1c with the planes we have now its mostly your own fault. You must use the plane to its ability not fight against (using the attacking planes) the attackers ability. Most plane can out turn the -1c until they get fast then the hog both of them bythe way can out turn almost everyone of them. You want to beat it stay low and slow. it can over shoot you dont climb up to meat your death.

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Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
  Cherokee Indian
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[juzz]

"You want to beat it stay low and slow." - LOL! Trying to set up some easy kills for yourself there indian?  

F4U-1C: 9728 kills, 5420 deaths, k/d=1.79
F4U-1D: 456 kills, 1048 deaths, k/d=0.44

HMMMMM...

[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 02-06-2000).]

[Wrek]

I say leave -1C. To me it's just another plane.
Don't try to HO it.
If its on your six. Give it the splits.
If your above it. Kill it.

[ra]

The -1C throws things out of whack, it's too easy to get a snapshot kill in it.  Even the 190A-8 is harder because you don't have the panoramic view over the nose like you do in the hog.  

I think the -1C was added as a quick way to attract new players without having to create a whole new plane.  Only 200 were built, it has way more impact on the game than it ever did in the war.

When this game picks up steam and there are historical arenas and scenarios, the -1C will sit in the hangar with no purpose.  It's a Main Arena ride.

--ra--

[Dingy]

Ya know?

I dont know what all the ruckus is in the F4U-1C.  I haven't met one in my Nik while co-E I couldnt handle.  As long as you deny the HO, the Nik, Spit and 109 can do the tap dance on the F4's head with impunity.  Come on guys....the thing climbs poorly and is a bear to handle at low speeds.  As long as you keep the fite going up, the F4 wont be able to get guns solution for a snapshot.  Work for a rear quarter shot.

And like I keep trying to bang into my squaddies heads....AVOID THE HO!  

-Ding

[Lephturn]

I was very concerned that the 1C would damage the gameplay balance.  Although it isn't as bad as the first few days of the Cannon Hawg, I still think it's a "bad thing".  The main reason is that there were only 200 of 'em around.  The last thing we need to do is start the whole "if you guys get X, we want y!" roadkill rolling, and the F4U-1C has certainly done that.

I think this variant has a place in a rolling planeset... but that's it.  No, we shouldn't change the 1C, or "declaw" it as the subject says, but I don't think it should be available in the main arena.

Sigh.  I never though I'd see the day that the Hawg was called a "dweeb-mobile". :/  I hope I get my P-47D soon, now that's a cool plane.  

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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs

[Gator]

> Only 200 were built, it has way more impact on the game than it ever did in the war.

Yep, increases my desire for the historical arena and events.

> ... it would be unfortunate if this board got as harsh and cynical as AGW.

Amen, brother, amen.

[Gator]

  Guess I was reading the thread and posting my previous post when Lephturn was, too, 'cause I didn't see his post before I posted mine.  Which was too bad, he's a genius!  

> I don't think it should be available in the main arena.

  Great idea!     Sign me up on this petition!

  I'd prefer a main arena, a historical arena, historical events, a training arena and then a "fantasy arena"/"relaxed realism" (still the same flight models, just these aircraft with limited numbers and limited historical impact).  These limited production variants can be in appropriate historical events in appropriate numbers and also in the "fantasy arena" where they can fly in large numbers.

  What are the thoughts for minimum numbers that saw combat or production for main arena inclusion?  1,000?

[Yeager]

All I would add is that this particular set of quad 20s seems to have the greatest lethality.  Im not just talking your run-o-the mill snapshots, Im talking about single pings ending a ridiculously high percentage of encounters.  This plane would have been a genuinely wonderful addition had it been modeled with six 50s.

Still, I accept the fact, and I enjoy flying the damn thing as well.  Hell, I might even make a point of flying nothing but the 1C from here on out  

Yeager

[This message has been edited by Yeager (edited 02-06-2000).]

[ra]

<<This plane would have been a genuinely wonderful addition had it
                                been modeled with six 50s.>>

It is, it's called the F4U-1D.  

[Pongo]

Ruling out the F4U-1C on the basis of its gun package would rule out the following nearly identically armed planes
Hurricane IIc
Spit Vc(4*20)
Typhoon
Tempest
Mosquito
Beaufighter
P61
P51A(with 20s)imagine that thing in this game..at low alt...
I would doubt that people will like the P47 for the same reason. It will have quite a bit more firepower then any plane here but the 1C.
Some of these planes have even more firepower.
Some pretty common planes there.....Are we sure the F4U-1C is so bad.
We could throttle back the effectivness of the M2 cannon, but I bet that Spit pilots wouldnt like that...
I look at the historical rarity of the aircraft this way. If the US had needed guns like that most of their planes would have been so armed.


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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew

[CptTrips]

I think the 1c cannons seem a tad more powerful than say the 20mm on the Nik.

I could be wrong but it seems that way.
And thats from the point of view of someone thats been flying it.  Might be an illusion tho.  The combined effect of higher speed with same cannons make it seem more deadly. I've had several 8 kill sorties in it and I never get that in a Nik.  Are all 20mm created equal?

But they are not invincible.  I've kilt plenty and been kilt plenty.  

But God help you if I get a ping.  

Regards,
Wab

[Vermillion]

Strange, I rarely die too enemy C-Hogs. In fact I can't remember actually dying to one at all, period.

And if my stats show that I have, I would bet its because I pancaked my plane into the turf while trying to vulch a C-Hog.

Of course I don't take off from vulched fields. Hint hint hint.

And if there is one plane I have died while flying the most, its definitely the C-hog.

The C-Hog is good for only one thing, Vulching the enemy at a suppressed field. And I assume it will be a great Jabo fighter once we have a game that ground attack is useful and purposeful.

Otherwise its dead meat.

If you ban this plane from the arena, it will set a horrible precedent. And in my opinon, for all the wrong reasons. The N1K2 is a much more deadly aircraft in the majority of occaisons.

If your sick of being killed by the F4U-1C, maybe you should try taking off from a field that hasn't been de-acked, with 15 enemy planes circling over it.



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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
Dicta Verm: "Never give the suckers an even break!" or translated "Never engage without an advantage"