P38

[Crumpp]

And the P-38 is the best accelerating US aircraft.

Myth.  The P38 is the WORST accellerating US fighter.  Just check out the Tactical trials of a P47D, P51D, P38J vs Zeke.  The P38 came in dead last against both USAAF fighter types in all performance parameters.  It's been done to death in monster threads and backed up with scores of documentation.

At the 1944 Joint fighter Conference it was rated as "not manuverable enough to compete with modern fighter designs".  It was rated as "still useful for escort duties against Japanese Aircraft".  It also scored well as an attack platform.

Crumpp

[GRUNHERZ]

In AH it's the P38 is the best climbing US fighter save possibly the perked F4U4.. So acell must be pretty good here.

This request for a 100mph increse for autoretract is hillarious.

I actually could never have imagined this is what OIO wanted. He doesnt really have anything against autoretract, he just wants the autoretracvt speed upped some 100mph.  There is even no talk of damaging the flaps or even no possibio9ty of damaging them in his plan even if you keep them out at higher speeds..

Blantant, self serving, selfish hillarious BS...

[Furball]

Deleted for flame.

[killnu]

It surprising how some of the most vocal people in this game about adding 'realism' are also the most vocal about not ditching the auto-retracting flaps system. What are they afraid of? What is so scary about replacing a system that did not exist on most planes with a system that will model the damage to the flaps from over-speeding/stress?

very well put:)   just get rid of it.  if they break, they break and that is our mistake to make.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by killnu
very well put:)   just get rid of it.  if they break, they break and that is our mistake to make.

I'd have no problem with this, so long as when they broke they ceased to have any imput into the FM.  When they break, tear them off or retract them.

[Furball]

Originally posted by Furball
Deleted for flame.

Ya big meanie HT!

[OIO]

grun, before you resort to personal attacks try flying the 38 for at least a couple of weeks and engage in turn fights.

I guarantee you that you will see how a flap retracting and spinning your plane out of control JUST because the plane touched a speed which is easily achieved for a split second on a turning fight. 7 out of 10 fights that I lose are all thanks to this fairy feature.

Rip the flaps out? HELL id PREFER to lose my flaps and still be able to dive away than to SPIN and have the other guy shoot me down. But i prefer NOT to lose the flaps (there are pilot reports of them deploying and using the flaps in speeds well above the flight manual's specifications) so the other option is to increase the threshold of the autoretract.

If I say 20mph above current threshold its still too close. 50mph still too close. 80mph is ok, 100mph would be best imo, for some high altitude fights have the 38 gaining speed quite fast in nose below horizon turns.

And i didnt say there wasnt no drawback to it. I do want the plane to shake real bad all the while flaps are deployed in that 100mph threshold. the whole point is to NOT have the plane spin out of control from a feature that does not affect any other plane in the planeset but seriously affects the 38.

[Murdr]

OIO, not that this dead horse hasnt been beaten enough, but...

As the whole request alternative to auto-retract (and be resonable about it) stands:

Make it optional like auto take-off.
Flap deployment is still locked out over spec speed.
Add a damage probability model.  Example:
Percent over...........Speed for..........Damage
deployment............150mph. ............Probability
speed...................deplo yment
1%..............................151.5............... .25%
2%..............................153.................. .5%
3%..............................154.5................ 1%
4%..............................156................... 2%
5%..............................157.5................ 3%
6%..............................159................... 5%
8%..............................162.................. 10%
10%............................165.................. 33%
15%............................172.5............... 75%
Damage type is consistent with flap type.  (eg. break off, jamb, forced up and inoperable)

Your suggestion is a little over the top.

[2bighorn]

Originally posted by Murdr
damage probability model

Won't work either. Some people will get flaps damaged 10 times in 11 sorties and others once in 20... What we'll get is neverending whining...

Either there's fixed hard limit (and for all planes), or we leave it as it is.

For those who are complaining about p-38, go take 109 for a tour and turn fight with better turners.

[Murdr]

Originally posted by 2bighorn
Won't work either. Some people will get flaps damaged 10 times in 11 sorties and others once in 20... What we'll get is neverending whining...

Either there's fixed hard limit (and for all planes), or we leave it as it is.

For those who are complaining about p-38, go take 109 for a tour and turn fight with better turners.

I disagree, look at the example its on a curve.  The more you abuse it, the more likely a failure occurs.  Besides which, "Some people" would have opted to uncheck auto-flaps, and if they didnt like the results a) it was their choice to begin with b) they're free to recheck auto-flaps.

10 ton rated bridges dont automatically fail at 20,001lbs.  40psi tires dont automatically burst at 40.1psi.  S rated tires dont automatically fail at a split second of 113mph.  But flaps at a set degree automatically fail or auto-retract at the instant the rated mph is reached?

[Karnak]

OIO,

Maybe, just maybe, the P-38 driver shouldn't be expecting to turn fight with Spitfires and Zeros.

The fact that the incredibly generous flap model allows it to do so with the possibility that a sloppy P-38 driver, using his aircraft in a way that it should not be used, may pay a stiff penalty does not change any of this.

If the flaps broke at 251mph you'd still spin.  It would make no difference at all to how you fight.

[GRUNHERZ]

I have flown the P38 now and in AH 1, and it turns great. I see no problem with it what so ever.

Maybe you and I can test it out in the Dueling arena some time.

As for your request it really is purely selfish and self serving, you want an extra 100mph added to the autoretract with still no possibility of damage to the plane.  Considering your realism cries of autoretact being unfair and unrealstic that you now come and say you want an autoretact v2.0 that just gives you what you want with no damage is pretty blatant and actually shows that your request was always pretty self serving and dishonest.

And this is especially true considering that every other plane will fall out of the sky if you turn too hard once your flaps go up..  Less lift = less turny stuff.  There are limits to this you know...

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by OIO

I said it was nerfed in the manouvering dept. Its still as good a B&Z plane as in AH1. The snap-turn is gone. You cant clover-leaf with the 38 (snap-turn, let go of stick and accelerate, snap-turn, ,let go of stick and accelerate)... sciscors suffer lots from nose not being able to be pulled up fast enough.... you know its almost like the 38L in AH2 didnt have the hydraulic flight controls in the elevators.

I don't see that at all with the current P-38L.  I found it much easier to maneuver in AH2 than I did in AH1.  When AH2 came out, it was a lot easier to turn with Spitfires and N1K2s than it was in AH1.  But that's just me so YMMV.


ack-ack

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
In AH it's the P38 is the best climbing US fighter save possibly the perked F4U4.. So acell must be pretty good here.

This request for a 100mph increse for autoretract is hillarious.

I actually could never have imagined this is what OIO wanted. He doesnt really have anything against autoretract, he just wants the autoretracvt speed upped some 100mph.  There is even no talk of damaging the flaps or even no possibio9ty of damaging them in his plan even if you keep them out at higher speeds..

Blantant, self serving, selfish hillarious BS...

Something that the majority of us P-38 pilots do not want.   The majority of us want the auto-retract system replaced with a far more realistic modeling of the flaps in regards to damage caused by over-speeding/stress.

ack-ack

[BUG_EAF322]

I don't see why it was such a terrible accelerator.
It is one of the best climbers.

That means some bottom power

its got nothing to do with drag not at low speeds.

when u talk about high speed yes thats where drag counts.

JFC my prettythang

hi crummp i was just expecting u here.

maybe i should start an anti FW lobby just like u guys jumping on every P38 thread to down talk it.

how in gawds name could it only be suitable  as escort against the most manouvrable wo2 planes the japanese ones.

Anyway i realy like the way u present urself as a kind of wo2 plane guru

i tell u u aint




no i don't whine about the P38 its ok with me