Map Layout: 43 - early 44 planes on initial fronts of the map.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Kweassa

 I never said I wanted equal usage for all planes. I simply said that a certain overused portion of airplanes should be reduced in usage, and underused should be more promoted.
 

  I disagree totaly. There is no "overused" nor "unerused" planes as it is. The planes are used to fit the bill. Simple.  Why promote something that  doesn`t do that. Why reduce something that is doing exactly what it was designed to do?

Why's it a 'mess'? Very interesting choice of words. Is seeing more variety of planes in the air something 'messy' which should be avoided?

  The variety is allready there. That`s the point. The planes are being flown when each individual player decides that is the plane for any given situation. You are not going to force people to fly planes that they do not wish to fly in situations that they feel is not the right plane for the job  period, nor would it be appropriate to try to do so.
  The mess would be just that. You would be pushing something that is not , nor will ever be natural or common sense to do so.


 

Is it 'messy' when people take for granted they must take up a 110 or a Mosquito for real ground attack sorties, instead of take up a P-51D with 2k bombs + 10x HVAR load and do everything with that one plane?

  This makes absolutely no sense at all.
Who does or would take this for granted that they "MUST" take anything. That`s not now nor in the future.
  I`m also real curious where your getting a 10 HVAR load for the P51-D. It`s certainly not in Aces High.

  OK, now this is about the 3rd or fourth time I have answered your questions and you have yet to answer any that I have asked you. It`s getting a little boring.
Carry on.

[rabbidrabbit]

Jackal,

Not wanting to get in the middle of you guys but how about telling me why having a section of a MA map being limited to ground war and or early plane set limits the other parts of the MA map?  Folks would have the choice of the same old same old or trying some of the earlier planes without the drawbacks of being dramatically outclassed.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
Jackal,

Not wanting to get in the middle of you guys but how about telling me why having a section of a MA map being limited to ground war and or early plane set limits the other parts of the MA map?  Folks would have the choice of the same old same old or trying some of the earlier planes without the drawbacks of being dramatically outclassed.

  I don`t know , you tell me.  I said it screws up frame rates by cramming to much crap on one map and it does. You are on a completely different subject than the thread. I can tell you that what you are suggesting has been suggested before and has been filed under 13.
  There is not one plane in the MA that is "dramaticaly outclassed" in the MA if you fly them in the right situations. Just takes a little common sense.

[TexMurphy]

So Jackal your saying that the P40 aint dramatically outclassed by lets say.... NIKKI, Spit, Yak, La7 ect ect ect.... ?????

Tex

[rabbidrabbit]

What was originally suggested was that we should have a limited plane set in the fronts with full plane sets in the rear of each line.  A number of credible arguements were made against that and my counter suggestion seems to fit the bill of satisfing those objections while providing the option for those like me who would like to try it instead of hundreds of bases of the same.  

If you are making an arguement against big maps based on frame rates that is a different arguement.  I'm saying that if we are going to have the big maps anyways then why not have the diversity?

You are right in saying all of these ideas have been suggested before and it has not really happened.  Since neither you nor I are making maps nor do we control the process our opinons are limited to just opinions.

[nopoop]

You dont split the arena. That DOESNT work. Been proven elsewhere.

Come to think of it just about everything that DOESN'T work has been proven elsewhere.  That game churns out stuff that doesn't work to the point that the game is a perfect example of what not to do in just about every case.

You fly early war in the MA because you have to. If you have to there is no reason to complain about it.

If you have to complain, just fly a late war ride.

Simple.

[rabbidrabbit]

I'm failing to see where your post adds anything to the discussion.  

I'd enjoy flying early war aircraft if they were not so significantly outclassed.  

I'd like to see a well put together gv fight area with some epic fights as well.

Both of these options add variety to an otherwise endless mass of the same.

[nopoop]

Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
I'm failing to see where your post adds anything to the discussion.  

What it adds to the discussion is that I participated in a game where what you suggest was tried. It didn't work, actually it failed miserably.

In the opinion of the majority that were there to try it.

It sucked.

Being that I experienced it, I would say my statements from that experience would have a place.

Maybe even show that the vision and the reality in most cases are two different things.

If not..

You go, your on a roll

[killnu]

nopoop, what game?

[rabbidrabbit]

Originally posted by nopoop
What it adds to the discussion is that I participated in a game where what you suggest was tried. It didn't work, actually it failed miserably.

In the opinion of the majority that were there to try it.

It sucked.

Being that I experienced it, I would say my statements from that experience would have a place.

Maybe even show that the vision and the reality in most cases are two different things.

If not..

You go, your on a roll

They had a small section of the map with restricted usage while leaving the greater majority open as it is now in the MA and it failed miserably?  How so?  What were the issues that remained unadressed?  I must be missing something so could you please stay away from the dramatics and blanket statements and explain?

[nopoop]

RB your the one that said my statements didn't add anything to the discussion. I don't do dramatics.

You want to discuss, lets..

Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
Both of these options add variety to an otherwise endless mass of the same.

A very common misconception in my view of gamers is that if you have seperate areas it increases variety.

At face value, just looking at it, you would conclude yes it does. In reality it does a diservice to the game dynamics by segregation. I would add that has been proven over time.

But you would say hey, at primetime there's better than 400 playing. A seperate thing going on isn't going to make any difference.

"Seperate" takes away from a games critical mass. Just as seperate arenas take away from critical mass so does seperate areas.

Population once it reaches critical mass perpetuates itself. New guy coming on sees 300 or better playing, sees stuff going on everywhere.

It is in a sense a big sandbox to play in.  Restrictions are few. Those in place are to keep it "even"

Just in the short time that "tank town" existed I saw changes. In my case I don't GV. What I found that quite a few of the aggressive pilots, the pilots that like the "fight" took a time out and jumped into tank town for the duration.

What were left were the war winners. In effect it had a large impact on the game dynamics.

Where it comes into play is over time. It doesn't happen over night. It is no longer "a" sandbox. It's a few.

In that one example when I found trinity up, I tried a couple of sorties and the majority of times I found something else to do with my time.  Put a tank town in every map and you'll see over time less variety and less players.

Warbirds went from a 4 color arena, added an RPS, made it axis/allies, introduced certain planes only from certain fields, restricted radar etc.

Everything they did was segregating. Guys didn't like early war, they didn't fly. Many didn't fly until their plane was available. Axis allied split squads. Restricted radar made finding a fight especially for a newbie next to impossible.

They in effect asked everyone to leave through restriction.

They did, me included. They lost critical mass and when a new guy logs on there for the first time he is lucky to see 100 people primetime. Not on radar of course, he looks at an arena with 3 dots, all of them friendly. For cripes sakes they added AL planes so you could find something to fight.

The sandbox has to remain the sandbox. If you divide it up, the dynamics die. It is a restriction in the real sense, not added variety.

Don't mess with the sandbox. Everyone plays in the SAME all encomposing sandbox. If you don't then your messing with the dynamics that make it "go".

Seen it. It was ugly.

If you like early war planes, fly them. Your up to the challenge.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by TexMurphy
So Jackal your saying that the P40 aint dramatically outclassed by lets say.... NIKKI, Spit, Yak, La7 ect ect ect.... ?????

Tex

If you will scroll up, here is what I said.......again. "There is not one plane in the MA that is "dramaticaly outclassed" in the MA if you fly them in the right situations. Just takes a little common sense."

  Is it that difficult to understand?

  Some guys in the game can fly a P40 in the right situation and send you for a visit to the tower in short order.

[rabbidrabbit]

Good response NoPoopy..>

My gut feeling is that you have a point but to limited extent.  From what I'm hearing WB went too far with the idea without the critical mass to support it. With a larger mass in AH those who jump over to a gv dominated area or earlier restricted planeset on will not have that dramatic effect.   Often, those users will jump over then jump back depending on whim.  Those who want to do the GV thing already do it but it's tough to see a epic style GV duke a thon since they are too spread out. The only way to tell is to give it a try on a map and it will matter little since it is just one in the rotation.  I personaly fly just about everything and switch back and forth to whats needed for the task or viable.  For example if I'm near a horde upping a earlier war bird is close to suicide since you can't evade a gangbang, otherwise I prefer the challange.

[nopoop]

Not true RB. WB in it's heyday had a limit of 250 online. You had to wait to get in. You'd wait hitten the button up to a half hour to get in at 2 bucks an hour.

Restriction takes it's toll. It's not seen immediatly. It takes time and before you know it it has.

I'd like to hear HT's thoughts. He was the MAN at WB when you had to wait to get in.

And with the addition of AH to his portfolio there has always been an unrestricted, non segregated "sandbox".

There's gotta be a reason for that.

Taint cheese on top of his neck.

Maybe he just likes to eat at the finer resturants.