Would the non "Europe is crap" citizens please sign in ok?

[Tumor]

Originally posted by Zulu7
Just to see who is not into this "Amerihater Guns are great redneck nonsense". And please no Racists I've found a few in here sadly.

[Lazerus]

I've heard that neo-cons now prefer the label 'progressives'

Please respect their choice of verbal definition.

[Zulu7]

poo Poo Head!!!!!! By god how old are we all in here?

Well I thought this one might stir up something but sadly all its stirred up is a load of Poo Poo!

[Zulu7]

So Tumor does your a*se icon convey the message that you are fine with the racists then? Or just that you are 10 years old?

[Tumor]

Originally posted by Zulu7
So Tumor does your a*se icon convey the message that you are fine with the racists then? Or just that you are 10 years old?

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Toad
WE are free to post our opinions. And free to disagree with yours.

Yes, but it's stretching it a bit when you accuse Zulu7 of having a personality disorder - just because he doesn't share your views, which is what you did in his other thread.

Speaking of which, Gtora2 said, in that thread, that he didn't care what Zulu7 thinks - but here he is, yet again, reading one of Zulu's threads.  

Zulu, I've been to the USA in every calendar year since 1977 except 2002, and the only gun owners I know of were those I met at the 2003 minicon in CA. I think the whole gun thing is way overplayed on this board. The thing is, I don't like asking folks in America if they have a gun, because most of 'em look at you as if they think you're nuts for asking.  One thing I can tell you is that this board, IMO, is certainly NOT representative of the US population as a whole. And I've been to 41 of the 50 states and will be adding two more in April. I just don't naturally rub shoulders with gun types, but Tomato and I enjoyed our day out with Lazs immensely - not just shooting his guns, but "shooting the breeze" afterwards at Lazs's hovel.



Drediock said

Probably because compaired to where you are.
Even our left wingers are right wingers

There's a lot of truth in that. For example, Lazs tells us he votes Republican. Now it's hard to imagine a British equivalent of Lazs and difficult to imagine that if that person existed that he would vote Conservative. The principle also works in reverse. I have a lot of friends in New York, many of them Jewish. I was over there last September for a visit which coincided with the Jewish new year festival of Rosh Hashanah, and was invited to a RH dinner in Tarrytown,NY. I was the only gentile there - lol. On the way there in the car, the conversation had been about the forthcoming presidential election, and everyone including our host (who I had not met before) was planning to vote Democrat. - Not a complete surprise, as NY is strong Dem country. The big surprise came later, when we arrived at the house which I had never seen before. The house was huge, with a very large hall and lounge, separate dining room to mention just three of about eight rooms downstairs. I didn't see the upstairs. Talking to our hostess over dinner, I was further surprised to hear her say that "we're very left wing", and their earlier years had even chosen where to live according to how left wing the place was. Now, if that family and their house could be transported to England, there's no freaking way on this earth that they'd be voting for Tony Blair. That house, in my area (Thames Valley) would be worth about £2m. The stamp duty payable when buying it would buy me a damned nice Mercedes Benz!

Anyhow, it had to be done: I had to ask their views on guns - lol. I had to broach the subject gently, else they'd have thought I was a nutter. Well, I think you can guess the answer. As a matter of fact, none of the people I know in NYC has any interest in guns at all, including a number of female friends who live alone.


Kind regards,
Beet    <--- who is as heavily armed as a typical American female car rental telesales agent living in Oklahoma.

[Zulu7]

Thanks Beetle. You are more erudite and wordy than me. But yes I agree this BBs is not representitive of a population. Representitive of the players of this game maybe.

I heartily disagree with Lazs though I appreciate that most of the time he attempts to discuss/argue his position rather than fling insults as others do. his opinion of our country seems a little low though.

I've had enough of the gun thing anyhow. On to more interesting issues I think.

[lazs2]

hmm... zulu... you seem very arogant and angry to me.   You seem to define liberal as I know it.  To me the liberal is the person who forms a socialist view based on loving humanity but hateing people...  they seem afraid of people and pissed off when they are "betrayed" by the humanity that they are trying to help..  they normally give themselves these rights by dint of self realized extra intelligence and sensitivity not shared by lesser men...

We don't want your help... we don't believe you know what is best for us... if that makes me a neo con then so be it.

As beetle points out... I vote republican... I vote republican when there is a chance a democrat will get in..  I vote livertarian when it will be a republican landslide.  I think beetle defines the british conservative... he wants to live in a palatial manner and be part of the "upper class"  He wants to limit the rights of the undeserving while doleing out rights to those who pass the class test.. this is exactly what the so called liberals he runs into here want and the way they think... no wonder he is confused.  I like people on an individual basis... I pretty much like people but hate the masses.  The mass has not personality save a crappy one.

RPM... there is no catch 22 for me... it is you who are caught in the catch 22... you want society to be able to tell people how to act but you want to have your guns and (in all fairness) seem to not be into being a busybody so far as these rights go for the rest of us peasants...  When you vote for a simple gun related Or vehicle related (I take it you like Hot Rods) legeslation...  you are my friend, or at least, compatriot...  When you vote with the women for womenly candidates who would nanny us and take away our rights you are our enemy.

What taints all of our views is simply this... If you vote for a party based on some few things that are very important to you... some rights you want to keep or take away...Then you are sorta left with defending the myriad of other possitions that party takes even if they strike you as too... too.   They are still better than the other guys party who will ruin your life on a personal level.

Women don't want me to have guns and Hot Rods.. I don't vote the way the women do.

lazs

[beet1e]

LOL Lazs! :cool:

[lazs2]

yep... was fun talking to (at) beetle.   I think we are total oppossites.   He wants a sense of order in the world with well defined roles for everyone and steps to getting there... a sense of historical class and order and right and wrong with firm guidance from the upper class.

I want chaos and split second decisions and anarchy.   I resent any attempt to draw me into the ruling class or any rules they may impose on me.

Back in the day...  The guys I grew up with were clubbers... Harley clubbers.. That meant something different in the 70's and 80's...  But... because I knew em all from way back and was meaner than they were..  They would "allow" me to be part of their "club"... No friggin thanks....  those guys had more rules and regulations than the cops or the moose lodge.   Everything from a dress code to a code of conduct... and... they were less flexible (with each other) than even the cops or the local mormon church.

lazs

[OneWordAnswer]

Originally posted by Zulu7
Neo Con =  current right wing faction within US govt. In this context guys who paste Amerihater bull when someone from europe disagrees with their point of view

Wrong.

"Neoconservatism is the first variant of American conservatism in the past century that is in the "American grain." It is hopeful, not lugubrious; forward-looking, not nostalgic; and its general tone is cheerful, not grim or dyspeptic. Its 20th-century heroes tend to be TR, FDR, and Ronald Reagan. Such Republican and conservative worthies as Calvin Coolidge, Herbert Hoover, Dwight Eisenhower, and Barry Goldwater are politely overlooked.

The steady decline in our democratic culture, sinking to new levels of vulgarity, does unite neocons with traditional conservatives--though not with those libertarian conservatives who are conservative in economics but unmindful of the culture. The upshot is a quite unexpected alliance between neocons, who include a fair proportion of secular intellectuals, and religious traditionalists. They are united on issues concerning the quality of education, the relations of church and state, the regulation of pornography, and the like, all of which they regard as proper candidates for the government's attention. And since the Republican party now has a substantial base among the religious, this gives neocons a certain influence and even power. Because religious conservatism is so feeble in Europe, the neoconservative potential there is correspondingly weak.

AND THEN, of course, there is foreign policy, the area of American politics where neoconservatism has recently been the focus of media attention. First, patriotism is a natural and healthy sentiment and should be encouraged by both private and public institutions. Precisely because we are a nation of immigrants, this is a powerful American sentiment. Second, world government is a terrible idea since it can lead to world tyranny.[/size] International institutions that point to an ultimate world government should be regarded with the deepest suspicion. Third, statesmen should, above all, have the ability to distinguish friends from enemies. This is not as easy as it sounds, as the history of the Cold War revealed. The number of intelligent men who could not count the Soviet Union as an enemy, even though this was its own self-definition, was absolutely astonishing.

 

[/i]

[lazs2]

hmm... guess I am a libertarian with neo con leanings.

I pretty much lean toward whoever leaves me alone the most...  when they get too powerful I vote for the new guy claiming to get the old guy out of my life.

lazs

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by lazs2
hmm... guess I am a libertarian with neo con leanings.

I pretty much lean toward whoever leaves me alone the most...  when they get too powerful I vote for the new guy claiming to get the old guy out of my life.

lazs

Now thats tagline material:aok

[Toad]

Originally posted by beet1e
Yes, but it's stretching it a bit when you accuse Zulu7 of having a personality disorder - just because he doesn't share your views, which is what you did in his other thread.

[/b]

See how confused you Euros get?

I didn't accuse him of having a personality disorder at all. What I said was  his

personality leaves much to be desired  

.

Not the same thing at all, old chap.

Further and more importantly, I did not say that because

 "just because he doesn't share (my) views". I said it because he posts like a male donkey.

Hope that clears things up.

As for your thumbnail sketch of the US, that's what it is. Reminds me of the blind men examining an elephant. Yes, if you visited my relatives in New Jersey, they'd look at you questioningly if you asked them if they had a gun. If you asked the same question in my part of the country, they'd look at you questioningly too. Only it'd be an entirely different question in their look.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Toad
personality leaves much to be desired

- for not sharing your views?