Would the non "Europe is crap" citizens please sign in ok?

[Toad]

No, for his attitude/style of posting.

[beet1e]

OK, but can you put your hand on your heart and claim that you have never posted like a male donkey? I don't think so.

Originally posted by Toad
Yes, if you visited my relatives in New Jersey, they'd look at you questioningly if you asked them if they had a gun. If you asked the same question in my part of the country, they'd look at you questioningly too. Only it'd be an entirely different question in their look.

I already have - in a telephone conversation with a booking agent working for Dollar Car Rental. She mentioned that she lives in OK - not quite your part of the world, but bordering KS to the north, TX to the south and AR to the east, it sounds like a gun state sandwich to me.

[NUKE]

Beetle, how do you think I'd come across in asking some Brits if they owned a cricket paddle?

Kind of the same thing with your question posed to average Americans.......just a question we don't hear.

[Toad]

Originally posted by beet1e
OK, but can you put your hand on your heart and claim that you have never posted like a male donkey? I don't think so.  I

Doesn't really matter what you think. I know I haven't routinely posted with the attitude/style Zulu uses about every time.

As for the rest, you talked to a woman in a city.

[cpxxx]

I do think this board does appear at times to be a very right wing. In fact it pretty much has a balance. It's just that the right wingers are more vocal and they tend to lump all of us so called Euros into the Amerihater camp at times.
I think it's fair to say that there is more of an apparent  right wing bias at least in part because of the nature of the Aces High. Essentially it's a wargame and draws in people with an interest in military history and it seems history in general. Plus aviation. Curiously too, their age range is very much at the higher end. Lots of guys in their thirties and forties. There is a disproportionate number of ex or serving military and not surprisingly pilots on this board. Conservatism I think is endemic in both groups.

On guns I changed my opinion on gun control from reading this board particularly from the likes of Lazs and others. It doesn't work very well and only penalizes the law abiding and never stops guns making their way to criminals. On the other hand I agree with some gun control as a way of preventing guns getting to criminals in the first place. Guns, after all are always made by legitimate gun manufacturers who sell them to legitimate gun dealers.  At this point some fall into the hands of criminals. That is the real gun problem. Someone is feeding guns to criminals. That needs to be stopped.  

Drediock and Beetle said when they both pointed out that a left winger in America is more right wing than typical British or European left wingers. I find Beetle rather conservative but some of the real right wingers practically think he's a commie    They also don't get the British sense of humour which I think is funny. Also I think Americans freely express their patriotism whereas we are always a bit suspicious of people like that in our respective countries.



It all makes for a fascinating exchange of opinions which I enjoy.
I think I'd like to meet some of the people on this notice board eventually. I doubt if it would be as fiery as it appears on this board. After all most have a shared interest in military aviation. So we would have something to agree on or at least argue over the relative merits of the F4U or the P51 or the LA7. Although on seconds thoughts the LA7 might start a fight.

[Suave]

I'm not a neo con, I'm much more conservative than a neo con. I'm Thomas Jefferson conservative, I'm a constitutionalist, a libertarian. I believe people should be able to carry guns, walk around naked and grow pot.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Toad
Doesn't really matter what you think. I know I haven't routinely posted with the attitude/style Zulu uses about every time.

Apples and oranges. You have been here since 1999 and have made more than 10,000 posts. Zulu joined only this month and has made fewer than 200 posts. Clearly he is still getting to know the community.

As for the rest, you talked to a woman in a city.

Does this somehow invalidate the conversation? Erm... no. We don't even know if she was in a city, though the chances are she was in some sort of urban settlement when I spoke to her. But you're simply male-donkey-uming if you're saying that she LIVES in a city. Tell ya what - you name any town in any state, and I'll make a phone call to a hotel in that town, tell 'em I'm coming in, and ask them if I'll need a gun. I'll record the conversation and email it to you.

cpxxx -

On guns I changed my opinion on gun control from reading this board particularly from the likes of Lazs and others. It doesn't work very well and only penalizes the law abiding and never stops guns making their way to criminals. On the other hand I agree with some gun control as a way of preventing guns getting to criminals in the first place. Guns, after all are always made by legitimate gun manufacturers who sell them to legitimate gun dealers. At this point some fall into the hands of criminals. That is the real gun problem. Someone is feeding guns to criminals. That needs to be stopped.

I agree that there's no problem with the likes of Lazs and Toad having guns, provided that they're kept in a secure safe like the big green one that Lazs has, so that they cannot be stolen.  As to the part of your quote that I underlined, you're right of course. But the simple fact of the matter is that for guns to be available to the law abiding (through legitimate gun dealers etc.) there's no way on earth to prevent them from getting into criminal hands as well. That's the problem. The lawmakers of Britain could see how this would all end up back around 1920, and so our gun control legislation targets the supply of guns. The 1920 legislation "sailed through parliament", as the NRA is fond of putting it, because of a minuscule level of legitimate gun ownership.  Same thing in Bermuda where Curval lives. Maybe it's not a perfect solution, but it's a damn site better than guns-4-all, as homicide stats from around the world bear witness.

[Toad]

I didn't start out posting like a male donkey. I never posted consistently like a male donkey. I rarely post like a male donkey.

Now Zulu on the other hand.........

You could call a hotel in hell itself and the desk clerk would tell you you're going to enjoy your stay. Are you really this nutso in person?

And, of course, if you study the political movements of the 1920's and the changes in politics of nations at that time you'll see the real reason the English had a Firearms Act at that time. Didn't have any thing to do with your lawmakers being prescient about "how all this would end up".

But keep saying that. It makes my case for your understanding of the history of English gun law to any knowledgeable person.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Toad
And, of course, if you study the political movements of the 1920's and the changes in politics of nations at that time you'll see the real reason the English had a Firearms Act at that time. Didn't have any thing to do with your lawmakers being prescient about "how all this would end up".

Bullshirt. You're choosing to completely ignore the Blackwell Report, in which gun control legislation was being contemplated as long ago was 1911 - a long time before 1920. In that report, we learn that 6 police officers were shot and killed in the five years 1908-1912, with 92 shot and injured. These crimes were not the actions of any political movement, but of common criminals, many of whom were conscripted to the Armed Forces of the Crown to serve in the Great War by the Military Service Acts. Needless to say, these men were given guns to use in that service, many of which would return to Britain at the end of the war. It's obvious how it would end up to anyone not wearing NRA approved blinkers. But we had the 1920 Firearms Act. And in modern times only two police officers have been shot and killed in a 20 year period. I think that result speaks for itself. In point of fact, one of those officers was killed by a machine gun bullet fired from the Libyan Embassy in London, and the gun used was thus beyond the scope of British gun control legislation, and was probably smuggled out of the country in the diplomatic bag. The other officer who died was shot by an American - a former US Marine.

Time for you to read my sig. again. I don't know how many times you've read it, but it's still not enough.

[Toad]

Poor Beet.

I thank you again, however.

As I've pointed out, you simply either don't know, don't understand or refuse to accept the history of England's gun control.

This is a perfect example:

Beet: You're choosing to completely ignore the Blackwell Report, in which gun control legislation was being contemplated as long ago was 1911 - a long time before 1920

Here is the actual history:

Sir Ernley Blackwell KCB's Unpublished Home Office Report, marked 'Confidential', made to Christopher Addison MP, HM Minister of Reconstruction, dated 15 November 1918.

Well, there goes your argument of "a long time before 1920". Not to worry, I'm used to it. You just don't know your own history or choose not to accept the obvious.

And what major political upheaval occurred just prior to this report that shook the foundations of government across Europe? Thank you.

Some day, when you learn the actual history of gun control in England perhaps we'll discuss it again.

[lazs2]

beet.. that is where we differ on the guns thing... I don't care who owns guns so long as they are not too young or insane.   I don't care if they are stolen except for myself.   I think others should be more careful but that is their decision.

If you would have called rosie odonnel she would have told you she has never seen a gun or had one anywhere around her  same for dianne finestiene... they would have been lying.   If you ask people in cities that have strict laws against firearms and are paranoid city dwellers besides... they might even lie to you.   If you would have asked in my neighborhood you might have found about 80% or so had a gun in the house.   Nationwide it is like 60-70 million households.   regardless of what your scientific nationwide poll said.

And zulu... here is a thought for you... no matter what it is that you enjoy... if it is the least bit manly.... there is a liberal group out there somewhere seeking to ban it.

lazs

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Toad
Poor Beet....

Here is the actual history:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Sir Ernley Blackwell KCB's Unpublished Home Office Report, marked 'Confidential', made to Christopher Addison MP, HM Minister of Reconstruction, dated 15 November 1918.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, there goes your argument of "a long time before 1920". Not to worry, I'm used to it. You just don't know your own history or choose not to accept the obvious.

It all depends on your frame of reference:  For a mayfly, 13 1/2 months is several hundred generations.  If you look at the history of the world all 50 million years of human existance is [Carl Sagan voice]in the last few seconds of the last minute before midnite on Dec 31.[/Carl Sagan]

[spitfiremkv]

I say, no people is better than another. Americans included.
But as a country, US is clearly better than most in terms of income, personal freedoms and general standard of living.
But let's not forget that most Americans today are the descendants of immigrants from Europe. The rest are immigrants or descendants of imigrants from other parts of the world, descendants of slaves brought from Africa, and a minor percentage are descendants of Native Americans. This nation is only 200 years old, and therefore even the notion of an American People is preconceived. Let's wait a thousand years and then there will be grounds for a debate between Europeans and Americans. Cause right now, I see no difference between the two

[lazs2]

I would rather live here.   I like large countries with a lot of freedom.   I like cheap gass and citizens being the government...This may change.   Hope not.

lazs

[JB88]

Originally posted by Suave
I'm not a neo con, I'm much more conservative than a neo con. I'm Thomas Jefferson conservative, I'm a constitutionalist, a libertarian. I believe people should be able to carry guns, walk around naked and grow pot.