Author Topic: Interesting P-39 story.....  (Read 1311 times)

Offline SunTracker

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Interesting P-39 story.....
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2005, 04:47:03 PM »
The figures I read for the P-63D were 410mph at sea level, 437mph at 30,000.  1800hp war emergency power at sea level.  I bet the gun pods on the wings really slowed that plane down.

Offline Widewing

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Interesting P-39 story.....
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2005, 05:07:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SunTracker
The figures I read for the P-63D were 410mph at sea level, 437mph at 30,000.  1800hp war emergency power at sea level.  I bet the gun pods on the wings really slowed that plane down.


Ahh, yes the P-63D was a monster. However, the P-63D was a one-off prototype. It never entered production.

By the way, the P-63 and P-39 were as different as the F4F was from the F8F. They were completely different airframes. Similar in appearance, but vastly different nonetheless. For example, the P-63 was designed around a laminar flow wing (first tested on the XP-39E).

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Magoo

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Interesting P-39 story.....
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2005, 10:27:45 AM »
3303 P63s built, 2397 sent to the Ruskies. Sounds like we need a Russian P63 (C) in the game!

37MM M10 cannon with 58 rounds (was this cannon an improvement on the M4?)

2 - 50 cals in the nose 200RPG
2 - 50s in underwing gondolas 900RPG

Good as done right?

Magoo
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Offline Tilt

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« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2005, 10:42:36 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Magoo
3303 P63s built, 2397 sent to the Ruskies. Sounds like we need a Russian P63 (C) in the game!



P63 never saw combat on the Eastern Front (against the LW)

Against the Japanese (just after the official surrender) the VVS achieved the one and only WWII combat kill by a P63  over the Kurile islands.

It is hardly  a WWII ac but I guess its more of one than the Ta152.

It should only ever be seen in VVS colours IMO.
Ludere Vincere

Offline Magoo

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« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2005, 11:29:29 AM »
Good info Tilt. If indeed they didn't see combat in WWII, then we don't need them in the game. I'll take a P39 please, with a little Russian dressing...

And what about Australia's under-representation in the game? How about a commonwealth Boomerang?:D

Magoo
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Offline humble

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« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2005, 11:37:15 AM »
I'm a bit curious, its rare for a plane with such high production numbers to not have a combat record.

"The first P-63C deliveries took place in December 1944, with the total production being 1227 aircraft. Most of these aircraft were delivered to the Soviet Union, although 114 were delivered to the Armee de l'Air."

"The P-63A-9 had 198.9 pounds of armor. It introduced the 37-mm M10 cannon in place of the earlier M4, and an increase in ammunition capacity from 30 to 58 37-mm rounds"

"Most of the P-63As that were manufactured at the Buffalo plant were immediately ferried to the Soviet Union. Upon completion, the P-63s would be rolled out of the factory and ferried from Niagra Falls to Selfride Field, Michigan. After refueling, the would be flown to Truax Field in Madison, Wisconsin where Soviet ferry pilots (usually women) would pick them up and fly them to Edmonton, Anchorage and then across the Bering Straits to the Soviet Union. The Russians used the Kingcobra primarily for close-support and ground strafing. The Kingcobra had a relatively good low-altitude performance and had the ability to absorb a lot of battle damage and still remain flying. It proved to be a potent ground attack aircraft and tank-buster, but it never received the amount of attention in the Soviet Union as did the Ilyushin Il-2 Shturmovik"

P 63 A10
Engine: One Allison V-1710-93 twelve-cylinder Vee liquid cooled engine with a single-stage supercharger and auxiliary hydraulic turbosupercharger, rated at 1325 hp at sea level and 1150 hp at 22,400 feet. Performance: Maximum speed was 361 mph at 5000 feet, 392 mph at 15,000 feet, and 410 mph at 25,000 feet. An altitude of 25,000 feet could be reached in 7.3 minutes. Service ceiling was 43,000 feet. Ferry range was 2575 miles. Weights were 6375 pounds empty, 8800 pounds loaded, and 10,500 pounds maximum takeoff. Dimensions: Wingspan 38 feet 4 inches, length 32 feet 8 inches, height 12 feet 7 inches, and wing area 248 square feet. Armament One 37-mm M10 cannon with 58 rounds firing through the propeller hub, two 0.50-inch machine guns in the nose with 200 rpg, and one 0.50-inch machine gun in each of two underwing gondolas with 900 rpg. A centerline underfuselage rack could carry a 75-US gallon auxiliary fuel tank or a 500-lb bomb


Sounds like the A model was in service with frontline units....

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Offline humble

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« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2005, 11:43:20 AM »
Found this further down on the same web site....

Of the 3303 P-63s built, 2397 were delivered to the Soviet under Lend Lease. All of these were delivered between 1942 and 1945, and 21 were lost during ferrying.

So the P-63 was in service in the soviet union from 1943 on!

Has to be a typo...

Production deliveries of the P-63A began in October of 1943, and by December of 1944 1725 P-63As had been produced.

So plane was in service from late 1943, not late 1942...was wondering since 1st flight by prototype was Dec 7, 1942:)...
« Last Edit: February 18, 2005, 11:47:49 AM by humble »

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Offline Widewing

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Interesting P-39 story.....
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2005, 01:11:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tilt
P63 never saw combat on the Eastern Front (against the LW)

Against the Japanese (just after the official surrender) the VVS achieved the one and only WWII combat kill by a P63  over the Kurile islands.

It is hardly  a WWII ac but I guess its more of one than the Ta152.

It should only ever be seen in VVS colours IMO.


If you research the P-63A, you will find reports of encounters between P-63As and the Luftwaffe. It seems that the plane saw limited combat testing on the Eastern front, if not actual deployment.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline hogenbor

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Interesting P-39 story.....
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2005, 01:46:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by humble
Found this further down on the same web site....

Of the 3303 P-63s built, 2397 were delivered to the Soviet under Lend Lease. All of these were delivered between 1942 and 1945, and 21 were lost during ferrying.

So the P-63 was in service in the soviet union from 1943 on!



If this isn't true... WHY??? What did they do with 2400 high performance fighters? I never knew any better than that they used them in combat. What am I missing here? Is ist that they had indigenous fighters in sufficient numbers by then?

Offline Tilt

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« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2005, 02:15:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hogenbor
If this isn't true... WHY??? What did they do with 2400 high performance fighters? I never knew any better than that they used them in combat. What am I missing here? Is ist that they had indigenous fighters in sufficient numbers by then?


http://www.internetelite.ru/aircrafts/p-63king.html

please read all the way to the bottom.......
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Offline afool

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Interesting P-39 story.....
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2005, 02:25:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Magoo
[B37MM M10 cannon with 58 rounds (was this cannon an improvement on the M4?)

Magoo [/B]


The only difference was the oval feed tray was enlarged to conform to the larger fuselage. The redesign also cured ( so I've read) the jambing problem.

afool

Offline SunTracker

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Interesting P-39 story.....
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2005, 03:11:12 PM »
One interesting tidbit is that laminar flow wings werent very effective on World War II aircraft.  Any vibrations, circulating airflow (from propwash), or even something as thin as masking tape, would disrupt the laminar flow.

Offline MOSQ

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« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2005, 03:16:54 PM »
Combat reports on any Allied plane used by the SAF are considered underreported by almost everyone. THE SAF for political purposes downplayed Lend Lease armaments as much as possible.

I would imagine the P-63 was buried by the propoganda people. No doubt all late war victories were made by the People's Yaks and Lavochkins!

Now if you can find some recent quotes for former WWII SAF vets saying the P-63 was never used, I might believe them. But as for official SAF records from the late 40's and 50's, they are worthless for the truth.

Offline bunch

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Interesting P-39 story.....
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2005, 05:08:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by afool
The only difference was the oval feed tray was enlarged to conform to the larger fuselage. The redesign also cured ( so I've read) the jambing problem.

afool


I think I remember seeing a  table (probably from Tony Williams) showing a slightly (about 10%) higher rate o' fire for the M10.....

http://www.internetelite.ru/aircrafts/p-63king.html
says an Il-2 until was requipt with the Kingacobra, so maybe they considered it more for the attack role than as a fighter A/C, especially since they had their Yaks & Las.  The Emmanuel Gustin site says it had 1 hardpoint for a 500pounder, but the Russian one say 3 hardpoints were available.

Offline hogenbor

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Interesting P-39 story.....
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2005, 09:41:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tilt
http://www.internetelite.ru/aircrafts/p-63king.html

please read all the way to the bottom.......


I did. Apparently they were used by PVO units (Anti-Aircraft Defence). Don't know much about the organization within the Red Air force, so I do not know if this means they did not see combat.

Still quite surprising, as is the fact that it even received a Nato code name (Fred).