Crime Drops 99%!

[OneWordAnswer]

Subject.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by lazs2
white middle class people commit homicides with guns too but... It is at a rate that would be about that of canada say.  around 1.5-2 per 100,000.   depending on how you read the stats.

Lazs,

Once again,  you are ignoring the fact that according to FBI records, in a great many (4,874 in 2003) cases, the race of the offender is not known. Your figures only work if you assume that all the "unknowns" are non-whites. BTW, Nashwan has pointed this out to you in the past.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by OneWordAnswer
Subject.

Passport.

[lazs2]

beetle... you are talking overall homicide rate not firearms rate.

I have pointed this out to you in the past.

lazs

[beet1e]

Originally posted by lazs2
beetle... you are talking overall homicide rate not firearms rate.

I have pointed this out to you in the past.
 

You haven't, because this is the first time I've mentioned it.

There were 14,408 homicides in the US in 2003, of which 9,638 were committed with firearms, ie the majority. The FBI website does not compile homicide stats by race AND method, so what is your source for the statement you made about the white gun homicide rate, above?

[Nashwan]

nashwan has been caught being "selective" in his facts and unable to explain some of the inconsitancies too.

lazs

Where?

Of course I'm "selective", this board limits posts to 10,000 characters (and I know, because I often have to edit to fit).

We're all selective, for instance I have yet to see you post anything arguing gun control is a good idea.

But I don't distort, or post things I know to be wrong, or use facts to prove something I know to be wrong.

If I'm using data from a source I'm not sure of, I post what it is, so people can make up their own minds, as for example the stuff I posted in response to Toad, from the Brady organisation.

Nearly all the stuff I post are official stats from the FBI and the Home Office.

none of this says that if those people didn't have guns they wouldn't still commit a homicide.

Of course not. We've already defied common sense on this board and "established" pushing people out of windows is as easy and effective as shooting them.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by GrimCO
I can't remember the exact statistics either, but I can speak from experience having worked for 7 years as a police officer in an inner city area...  The vast majority of gun crimes were comitted by criminals ON criminals. Occasionally, while spraying away at their intended "adversary", they'd hit some innocent bystander or child playing with their blocks in the living room.

But of course if guns were outlawed, these types of people would surrender their firearms, or cease any attempts to obtain one because it would be illegal to own a gun.

So. whats the problem? With the exeption of an occasional innocent bystander the criminals eliminate each other and probable future criminals. Just let em have at it and eventually the problem solves itself:D

[lazs2]

beet.. the FBI site does indeed post by race and method (you just said 9,000 were firearms method).  I printed it out and am looking at it but the web address is not on the pages.  It breaks the method down to knives and types of guns and even being pushed out of windows.

nashwan...your 'common sense' is nothing but wishful thinking... In your country banning guns did not decrease the homicide rate... In our country adding concealled carry does not increase the homicide rate..   Please show me some stats where gun laws have changed the homicide rates more than a tiny spike one way or another.

Your arguement seems to be that you would ban guns because it would save lives and decrease crime.   You have absolutely no proof of this and in fact... all the evidense points in the other direction if anything.   Soo... yu allways fall back on your "feelings" and "common sense".

you gave up your rights for nothing because you can't be objective or fair.   You are firightened of guns so you would unfairly deny the rights of others to self defense.

lazs

[lazs2]

oh...http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/03cius.htm  

let people read it and decide for themselves.  It breaks down crime pretty well.   mountains of data.

lazs

[beet1e]

Originally posted by lazs2
beet.. the FBI site does indeed post by race and method (you just said 9,000 were firearms method).  I printed it out and am looking at it but the web address is not on the pages.  It breaks the method down to knives and types of guns and even being pushed out of windows.

Yes, but it doesn't give you a breakdown by race of the offenders involved in those 9,638                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          gun homicides. You can have total homicides where the offenders are broken down by race, OR total homicides broken down by method. But the FBI reports do not list "gun homicides broken down by the race of the offender". So I ask again -  how do you arrive at your conclusion that gun homicides committed by a white offender run at "1.5-2 per 100,000. depending on how you read the stats." ??

[lazs2]

It most certainly does break offenders down by race.  White, black.. other minorities... unknown.   It gives the total murders and the percent committed by firearms..Since most of the crime and murder takes place in minority controlled areas it is pretty safe to assume that most of  the offenders are minority.   even at the rate of the known ones... Whites would be less than half the unknown.    The majority of murders that are not investigated much are probly commited by minorities against minorities.

lazs

[beet1e]

Originally posted by lazs2
It most certainly does break offenders down by race.  White, black.. other minorities... unknown.   It gives the total murders and the percent committed by firearms..Since most of the crime and murder takes place in minority controlled areas it is pretty safe to assume that most of  the offenders are minority.   even at the rate of the known ones... Whites would be less than half the unknown.    The majority of murders that are not investigated much are probly commited by minorities against minorities.

lazs

Lazs - I can't see any FBI .XLS spreadsheet on that site which analyses the race of the offender according to the method of killing that was employed. Sure, you've got spreadsheets showing homicides by race of offender, race of victim, and by method. But nowhere do I see a spreadsheet that shows the race of the offender for any particular type of homicide such as gun homicide. It only shows race in the chart analysing ALL homicides. Post me a link.

[lazs2]

it breaks down homicide by race.   It breaks down homicide by weapon.   It does not break down weapon use by race as such.. You would have to assume that if the rate of firearms homicides is 66% then that would be pretty much true no matter the race.

lazs

[Toad]

Good Heavens!

Look at the jump in murder by fire!

We've got to get some registration going on matches and lighters and stuff. Not to mention combustibles like gasoline and kerosene. Then licensing for users of these items. Licensing must include mandatory training in the use of matches and lighters too.

Jeez! Trouble everywhere you look.

[lazs2]

but on the bright side.... because of so many firearms a lot of people were spared the cruel death of being pushed out of windows.

Also... so far as guns and children and accidental death... between ages of 1-4 there were no gun weilding murderes in the last few years... must be those safe storage laws kicking in... oh wait... that holds true even where there are no safe storage laws..

lazs