Author Topic: Arrest mistake (Read 4606 times)

Creamo · « **Reply #120 on:** March 06, 2005, 05:09:24 PM »

Hmmm, the "easy life" in the RV travelling the world, yet so much angst? What gives?

I read your posts Mav, it's like Warren Schmidt talking to the AH O'Club like we are a bunch of under privileged African orphans.

Let it go, Goose is in a better place. It's not your fault. Let him fly... God Speed Goose.

Raider179 · « **Reply #121 on:** March 06, 2005, 11:05:48 PM »

I think people are confusing detaining a "suspect" and detaining a "witness". If you are not a suspect in a crime you don't have to stick around.

Masherbrum · « **Reply #122 on:** March 06, 2005, 11:22:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tarmac
Detention requires nothing close to consent. When you get pulled over, you're detained. When a cop stops to talk to you and has reasonable suspicion to believe you were involved in a crime (ie you match a description), you aren't going anywhere. If he wants, he can handcuff you, put you on the curb, frisk you for weapons. If you leave, you're most likely taking a short trip into the ground.

As Mav said, Miranda warnings are only necessary when you have a custodial arrest by the police and want to use the suspect's statements against them in court. You can go all the way from committing the crime to going to jail and never be Mirandized. All it means is that your testimony (and any evidence obtained from it) can't be used against you in court. If they have enough evidence without your incriminating statements, you're still going away.

Cuff someone without cause, you're barking up a wrong tree. When the cuffs come on, you are taking a person's freedoms away. I'd advise against the frivilous use of cuffs, lawsuits will be on the horizon. Before some of you start popping off, I know plenty of Police, FBI, Sheriff, and Michigan State troopers, who agree with my statement.

Karaya

Nash · « **Reply #123 on:** March 06, 2005, 11:27:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Creamo
Hmmm, the "easy life" in the RV travelling the world, yet so much angst? What gives?

I read your posts Mav, it's like Warren Schmidt talking to the AH O'Club like we are a bunch of under privileged African orphans.

Let it go, Goose is in a better place. It's not your fault. Let him fly... God Speed Goose.

Del · « **Reply #124 on:** March 07, 2005, 12:00:03 AM »

Arrest=Charges being placed against you
Detain=In PA, I could detain you for up to 8hrs. But, at the 8hr point, I had to have you in front of a Magistrate or release you.

Miranda=Only when I want to question you about the crime. You will be advised of your rights when you appear in court about the right to a bull Shhht artist.. sorry, lawyer, bail and speedy trial.

Lets face it, we do not live in a perfect world where no one makes mistakes. Only liberals think that no one should make mistakes or be fired. Until you take the human factor out of LE, then expect mistakes and insted of being a butthead, work with LE and help work out the issues.
If you don't like the Police, next time your in trouble call a Crack head.

Raider179 · « **Reply #125 on:** March 07, 2005, 12:39:25 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Del
Arrest=Charges being placed against you
Detain=In PA, I could detain you for up to 8hrs. But, at the 8hr point, I had to have you in front of a Magistrate or release you.

Miranda=Only when I want to question you about the crime. You will be advised of your rights when you appear in court about the right to a bull Shhht artist.. sorry, lawyer, bail and speedy trial.

Lets face it, we do not live in a perfect world where no one makes mistakes. Only liberals think that no one should make mistakes or be fired. Until you take the human factor out of LE, then expect mistakes and insted of being a butthead, work with LE and help work out the issues.
If you don't like the Police, next time your in trouble call a Crack head.

Del but you can only detain "suspects" is that correct? or can you detain witnesses or whatever?

TweetyBird · « **Reply #126 on:** March 07, 2005, 10:26:01 PM »

Maverick, I'm not going to trade insults with you. If you think what is considered detention and what is considered arrest is set in stone, and not subject to the opinion of a judge or jury, you just don't know too much. IMO.

The fact is, the incident I mentioned could in NO POSSIBLE WAY be considered anything but an arrest, and arrests are IMEDIATELY public record, no matter if it takes the sheriff's office 2 weeks or 10 years to make it easily available for the average citizen. Its public record at the time of the arrest and the police agency or suspect has no legal recourse against anyone that publicizes the arrest. Booking has NOTHING to do with making it public record, and thats how this whole long thread got started - Mullet's contention that it isn't public record until they are booked, and that the lockup shouldn't just "tell anybody" of the arrest as if it were a secret or prvacy issue.

Now I'll take my chances anyday challenging the constitutionality of a detainment and defy you to find a block of cases which hold conviction for resisting detainment. Detainment (other than a few minutes to determine whether or not a crime is occuring) is a ruse
to circumvent the rights afforded under arrest.

Del · « **Reply #127 on:** March 07, 2005, 10:53:19 PM »

Radier,
First, I've been out of the LE loop for about 5yrs now but don't think things have changed that much.
When you goto bed at night, you look in the mirror, if you can pass the Red Face test and sleep knowing that you did what you know and belive to be the right thing.
I nor would any of the brothers/sister I know would detain someone just to do it. There was always a reason and that one would be willing to chance a law suit.
Police is one of the very few professions that, if you screw up, they will not only come after your deparment but they will take your home, tooth brush, what ever. This comes from some freaking lawyer and one freaking stupid cop. You sometimes gota wonder where they hire the 1% of dips from.
Its one of those things, its hard to explain until you have been in uniform and patroled the streets. When I would call in a DL, and if it would come back suspended or with warrents, I would verify the name, DOB, Address, and OLN. If it all matched, out come the nice shiny braclets (in PA suspended lic. is not reason to take someone to jail, unlike most states).
I have only once held someone for 8hrs before releasing them. I then picked them back up a few hours later after something changed, but, I had paperwork and warrent in hand when I did. Don't want to give anyone my tooth brush. BTW, if I arrest someone, take them to the Dist. Mag, he/she commits them to jail, the fact that I took them in isn't public record until they are fully booked and all paperwork checked and verified by the Booking officer. Then and only then do they release the information. The team in the jail has a lot of baby sitting todo with out having to respond to someones uncle calling that they are special and deserve special treatment.
I'm not even sure why I decited to respond to this.
Have a great day folks.

TweetyBird · « **Reply #128 on:** March 07, 2005, 11:04:56 PM »

Well, Del, you migyt not release it till after they are booked but it public record as soon as you arrest them and you have no reason to deny you've arrested them. Sorry thats just the facts unless your Dept disappears people.

Raider179 · « **Reply #129 on:** March 08, 2005, 12:12:44 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Del
Radier,
First, I've been out of the LE loop for about 5yrs now but don't think things have changed that much.
When you goto bed at night, you look in the mirror, if you can pass the Red Face test and sleep knowing that you did what you know and belive to be the right thing.
I nor would any of the brothers/sister I know would detain someone just to do it. There was always a reason and that one would be willing to chance a law suit.
Police is one of the very few professions that, if you screw up, they will not only come after your deparment but they will take your home, tooth brush, what ever. This comes from some freaking lawyer and one freaking stupid cop. You sometimes gota wonder where they hire the 1% of dips from.
Its one of those things, its hard to explain until you have been in uniform and patroled the streets. When I would call in a DL, and if it would come back suspended or with warrents, I would verify the name, DOB, Address, and OLN. If it all matched, out come the nice shiny braclets (in PA suspended lic. is not reason to take someone to jail, unlike most states).
I have only once held someone for 8hrs before releasing them. I then picked them back up a few hours later after something changed, but, I had paperwork and warrent in hand when I did. Don't want to give anyone my tooth brush. BTW, if I arrest someone, take them to the Dist. Mag, he/she commits them to jail, the fact that I took them in isn't public record until they are fully booked and all paperwork checked and verified by the Booking officer. Then and only then do they release the information. The team in the jail has a lot of baby sitting todo with out having to respond to someones uncle calling that they are special and deserve special treatment.
I'm not even sure why I decited to respond to this.
Have a great day folks.

sorry no disrespect but was that a yes or no? I understand you guys walk a fine line. I just want to know if you can "detain" a witness as opposed to someone who is a "suspect".

Martlet · « **Reply #130 on:** March 08, 2005, 07:31:24 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by TweetyBird
Maverick, I'm not going to trade insults with you. If you think what is considered detention and what is considered arrest is set in stone, and not subject to the opinion of a judge or jury, you just don't know too much. IMO.

The fact remains, several examples of written law have been given to back up his position.

You've offered nothing.

Airhead · « **Reply #131 on:** March 08, 2005, 09:55:09 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Del

When you goto bed at night, you look in the mirror...

I wand a mirror on my ceiling, too but the wife says no.

Creamo · « **Reply #132 on:** March 08, 2005, 09:58:08 AM »

Welp, there goes my trying to be clever this month, lol.

bastard

Mighty1 · « **Reply #133 on:** March 08, 2005, 10:22:24 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Airhead
I wand a mirror on my ceiling, too but the wife says no.

Maybe she doesn't like to see your bellybutton when she is having sex.

TweetyBird · « **Reply #134 on:** March 08, 2005, 09:13:30 PM »

>>The fact remains, several examples of written law have been given to back up his position.

You've offered nothing.<<

I offer you this. Detainment is a constitutional gray area that will be challenged each and every time. Even state statutes giving specific time limits to detainment will be challenged on intent, and the specifics of the case (i.e., it is ridiculous to think 20 minutes were needed to determine whether or not a crime was taking place or perhaps a public threat in this case). All of these BONFIDE police officers who think detainment is cut and dried and laid in stone are just showing what they don't know about detainment (i.e., for the most part its illegal and unconstitutional but legislative judges have invented it). There's a good chance that each and every case standing on detainment will go to appellate and beyond, for the simple fact it violates a FEW amendments.

Thats why no precedents have been posted, and thats why "detainment" is preferred over "detention" - too many bad Japanese-American memories associated with the latter.

Ah - but I forgot - law abiding Republicans don't use euphemisms like "detainment" to hide things like "detention."