Where are the clowns who said we are in a recession?

[Steve]

No.... They come north, immediately sign up for welfare and lose a limb costing the taxpayers untold millions.

No , they come north and take their kids to the emergency room for a runny nose because they cannot get health care in Mexico, costing taxpayers untold millions.

[Nash]

Please...

I offer you this Kleenex with the most profound sense of empathy for your plight and what you must be dealing with right now.

I had no idea. It must be terrible for you. I am so fluff'n sorry Steve.

[Steve]

Please...

*snicker*


Sarcasm is all that is left to you, since you have lost.

[JB88]

actually.  he didnt.

america is a nation of immigrants.

having them here, and continuing to have them here is what has made, and will continue to make this country strong.

some people sound to me like the type that would be berching about having to feed the slaves in the field.

nash was expressing a very well rounded world view, taking into account the greatest part of the free spirit and the willingness to help that spirit rise.

for those of you who have no problem banking the future of our children on an expensive globalistic war for this "freedom" i am shocked that you would have so little empathy for those who would seek it here within our borders.

perhaps some americans belong to the "well, i was born here so i am privleged" club.  or perhaps, deep down under all of that posturing lies a rascist.

or maybe its not that at all.  maybe its the competition that you fear.  the thought that these people are willing to make thier break...work thier tools off and make something of themselves.  maybe you are afraid that they will cut in line...

fact is.

we all come from either indians or immigrants.  just cuz you are here doesnt make you suddenly special or protected from competition.

i am sure that they thought that your kind was pondscum when they arrived too.

glad they got the chance to prove them wrong.

but then, in some cases, they havent been...but for the most part...

88

[Lazerus]

His post had nothing to do with the content of their character. It was soley refering to the welfare that is given out to illegal immigrants that seek medical care in US hospitals. As a libertarian you of all people should understand his position. The taxpayers of this country are subsidising healthcare for people that illegaly enter our country, work under the table(pay no taxes), and then demand free (aint free, me and you are paying for it) services at the local emergency room when one of their 6 kids gets a cold.

I have enough issues with the amount of money that is taken from me every week by good ol' uncle Sammy. I sure as hell don't want to be paying for someone that does not respect the laws of this country to get anything, medical care included.

Everyone is welcome in this country as far as I'm concerned, just do it the right way. Get here legaly, gain citizenship, learn at least enough of the language to get by. Support yourself, pay the taxes that come with the opportunity that you came here to enjoy. Have a good life, make babies. Tell yer grandkids how lucky you are that you had the chance to make it here and make a better life. Just don't sneak into the country, work illegaly, remain unable to talk to 90% of the country, contribute no money(taxes) to the country that you are robbing, and demand government subsidies because you are poor and downtrodden.


Maybe I'm just a hardass.

[storch]

Originally posted by Nash
'Sides....

If they were really such the bane of all that is America... Why is Bush, just like everyone before him, giving them a pass?

One must assume that, at the very least, someone is hiring them...

he's kinda right on this.  a quick muster on any construction site in America will prove him to be correct.

The facts are a little different from popularly held beliefs when it comes to compensation.  many immigrants illegal or otherwise are willing to take the less desirable and low paying work many Americans refuse to perform.  A large number of immigrants are showing up with with considerable skill in many different trades.

in my industry we see many highly skilled and talented welders/fitters who will initially take any job at any wage.  once they have settled into their positions and prove their merit they quickly earn on par with anyone.  they are willing to put in the time and effort to learn new techniques and production methods and are generally a pleasure to work with.

personally i am glad to see immigrants and i hope the flow never stops.  we receive the best the world has to offer and we are all the better for it.  this is a nation of immigrants.  who gave any of us the right to say when it's time to stop?  far from being a bane, they are a blessing.

[Lazerus]

Originally posted by storch
many immigrants illegal or otherwise are willing to take the less desirable and low paying work many Americans refuse to perform.  

It's funny how you stated that. "Illegal or otherwise"

Almost as if the illegal ones are the accepted norm, 'otherwise' used to describe the honest ones that try to obey the laws of the country that is allowing them the opportunity to make a better life.

Good, honest, hardworking. That describes the majority of the people that I have met that have come into this country to eek out a living. If we could just figure out a way to make them apply for citizenship, it will be a great, or greater, asset to us and a continuation of the American tradition of immigrants shaping the future.

Continuing the policy of allowing the illegal influx of immigrants into this country, and the resulting burden on the taxpayers, is not only unfair to those of us that are paying taxes, it will continue to drain the public coffers of funds that are needed for the citizens that are supposed to recieve them.

Welcome all that want to come. But they all need to participate in our system.

[storch]

Originally posted by Lazerus
It's funny how you stated that. "Illegal or otherwise"

Almost as if the illegal ones are the accepted norm, 'otherwise' used to describe the honest ones that try to obey the laws of the country that is allowing them the opportunity to make a better life.

Good, honest, hardworking. That describes the majority of the people that I have met that have come into this country to eek out a living. If we could just figure out a way to make them apply for citizenship, it will be a great, or greater, asset to us and a continuation of the American tradition of immigrants shaping the future.

Continuing the policy of allowing the illegal influx of immigrants into this country, and the resulting burden on the taxpayers, is not only unfair to those of us that are paying taxes, it will continue to drain the public coffers of funds that are needed for the citizens that are supposed to recieve them.

Welcome all that want to come. But they all need to participate in our system.

yup I agree with that, never the less they are here.   no one in Gov't has the will to do what needs doing, namely securing our southern border in a manner that would not further infringe upon our civil liberties. actually if we think social security is a third rail the political consequences of pissing off something like 25% of the voting electorate does seem suicidal.  I'm fairly certain that we would not want to suspend the posse comitatus act of 1878.  there are proponents in congress who would do just that.  the "patriot act" is bad enough, thankyou very much.

[Steve]

america is a nation of immigrants.

Blah blah blah.  This is conveniently short sited.  I have a hard time believeing someone who is a professed libertarian can possibly approve of illegal immigration.  Admit it, you're a leftist liberal... EVERY position you've ever taken, AFAIK, has been a leftist(and often far left) view.  You are just about ANYTHING but a libertarian.

Anyway, back to the point.  I have no problem with people that want to come to our country and make a legal living.  You say we are all immigrants here.  Well  my family is.... they immigrated legally, earned their way, and didn't get freee health care from anyone, just like most everyone's ancestors.

If these people come here, PAY taxes, I welcome them... the American dream! I have a problem with the millions of illegals that come here, make money under the table, send the bulk of that money to Mexico(yes, they do this) then expect(and get) free health care by using our emergency rooms as a free clinic.

Footnote: I also have a problem with thos who employ illegals... a big problem.

[culero]

Originally posted by Steve
No , they come north and take their kids to the emergency room for a runny nose because they cannot get health care in Mexico, costing taxpayers untold millions.

Sir, I live on the immediate border in an area highly populated on both sides. Here's an insight from someone who's there and can see what's happening:

Bravo Sierra.

Yes there is to some extent utilization of local medical resources by foreign nationals here. But it is in general not related to routine medical needs.

This is because health care in Mexico is cheaper than it is here by an order of magnitude, so much so that many locals here routinely drive across the bridge to obtain their routine medical needs.

Its been my observation and direct experience that the health care system in Mexico is both pretty good and tailored to suit Mexico's needs. For-pay care is affordable, their Social Security system steps pretty well in terms of providing for indigents, and there's a wide variety of private systems that provide care for various employee groups.

I'm not saying there isn't an issue to be dealt with here. What I am saying is that the attitude expressed in your post is utterly absurd.

culero

[Martlet]

Originally posted by culero
Sir, I live on the immediate border in an area highly populated on both sides. Here's an insight from someone who's there and can see what's happening:

Bravo Sierra.

Yes there is to some extent utilization of local medical resources by foreign nationals here. But it is in general not related to routine medical needs.

This is because health care in Mexico is cheaper than it is here by an order of magnitude, so much so that many locals here routinely drive across the bridge to obtain their routine medical needs.

Its been my observation and direct experience that the health care system in Mexico is both pretty good and tailored to suit Mexico's needs. For-pay care is affordable, their Social Security system steps pretty well in terms of providing for indigents, and there's a wide variety of private systems that provide care for various employee groups.

I'm not saying there isn't an issue to be dealt with here. What I am saying is that the attitude expressed in your post is utterly absurd.

culero

BZZZZZ.  Thanks for playing.

#

In some hospitals, as much as two-thirds of total operating costs
are for uncompensated care for illegal aliens.

Border hospitals reported losses of almost $190 million in
unreimbursed costs for treating illegal aliens in 2000, with another $113 million in ambulance fees and follow-up services

The problem is on the rise: Immigrants (legal and illegal) who arrived between 1994 and 1998 and their children accounted for 59 percent of the growth in the size of the uninsured population in the
last ten years.

FAIR

[Steve]

Sir,
My wife works in a local hospital here in Phoenix as an RN. She, and many of her friends either have or do work in local emergency rooms.  Not only do the illegals frequent the ER's with their minor problems, they do so at what many feel is nearly an epidemic rate.  
You are mistaken.

[storch]

Originally posted by Steve
Blah blah blah.  This is conveniently short sited.  I have a hard time believeing someone who is a professed libertarian can possibly approve of illegal immigration.  Admit it, you're a leftist liberal... EVERY position you've ever taken, AFAIK, has been a leftist(and often far left) view.  You are just about ANYTHING but a libertarian.

Anyway, back to the point.  I have no problem with people that want to come to our country and make a legal living.  You say we are all immigrants here.  Well  my family is.... they immigrated legally, earned their way, and didn't get freee health care from anyone, just like most everyone's ancestors.

If these people come here, PAY taxes, I welcome them... the American dream! I have a problem with the millions of illegals that come here, make money under the table, send the bulk of that money to Mexico(yes, they do this) then expect(and get) free health care by using our emergency rooms as a free clinic.

Footnote: I also have a problem with thos who employ illegals... a big problem.

oh boy I'm a leftist  many of us employers cannot determine if documents that are presented to us are legitimate.  I suppose one could call and verify each new employee thoroughly but if i need an installer or a welder today and he has proper looking documentation he gets the job.  furthermore illegal or otherwise his taxes and fica contributions are withheld, if he is illegal he will never receive anything back under that identity.  that simply means more found money for uncle sugar.  it's bad enough that that the federal gov't has turned every business owner into it's unpaid revenuer i'll be good and damned if i will also be it's unpaid INS agent as well.    what i think you need to do steve is to get your head resharpened.  the point looks a little dull from here.  

[culero]

Originally posted by Steve
Sir,
My wife works in a local hospital here in Phoenix as an RN. She, and many of her friends either have or do work in local emergency rooms.  Not only do the illegals frequent the ER's with their minor problems, they do so at what many feel is nearly an epidemic rate.  
You are mistaken.

How close to the border are you?

Here, "coming north" as you put it means merely driving across a few hundred yards of bridge.

In the scenario you're describing, we're talking a journey of a few hundred miles.

Use your head. A parent with a child with an illness will seek help in the most efficient and available manner possible. Where I live, for a Mexican national that's in Mexico.

You're talking about an entirely different problem, and couching in incorrect terms. The problem you refer to is legitimate and needs to be dealt with. Speak to it directly.

Yes, I'm sure, you probably have a lot of illegals in your ERs. But they didn't "come north" to bring a runny nose there. The reason they came is wholly seperate. They are at the ER because they have nowhere else nearby to go, now. If they were back home, they likely would.

The main problem is how we deal with immigration, and the integration of immigrants into our society. Then, its the nature of our health care system and its lack of capacity for indigent health care that creates the subset of the problem you refer to.

culero

[Martlet]

Originally posted by culero
How close to the border are you?

Here, "coming north" as you put it means merely driving across a few hundred yards of bridge.

In the scenario you're describing, we're talking a journey of a few hundred miles.

Use your head. A parent with a child with an illness will seek help in the most efficient and available manner possible. Where I live, for a Mexican national that's in Mexico.

You're talking about an entirely different problem, and couching in incorrect terms. The problem you refer to is legitimate and needs to be dealt with. Speak to it directly.

Yes, I'm sure, you probably have a lot of illegals in your ERs. But they didn't "come north" to bring a runny nose there. The reason they came is wholly seperate. They are at the ER because they have nowhere else nearby to go, now. If they were back home, they likely would.

The main problem is how we deal with immigration, and the integration of immigrants into our society. Then, its the nature of our health care system and its lack of capacity for indigent health care that creates the subset of the problem you refer to.

culero

Border hospitals reported losses of almost $190 million in
unreimbursed costs for treating illegal aliens in 2000, with another $113 million in ambulance fees and follow-up services