Author Topic: 109's were really that bad?!!!  (Read 2909 times)

Offline Oldman731

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Quote
Originally posted by DamnedRen
Please reread my post. The summary came out in the '70's not 1945. That was propaganda. Would you want to tell all the folks back home that all those missions did little?

The ETO summary came out on September 30, 1945.

You ought to read these reports.

Really.

- oldman

Offline BALSUR

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109's were really that bad?!!!
« Reply #46 on: March 09, 2005, 07:18:41 AM »
It's amazing to see so many with what their idea of how WW2 to turn out the way it did. So, here's mine.

1). Rommel lost in North Africa because he ran outta supplies.
2). The Normandy landing could have easily failed if the Panzer Divisions would have been released. Since the Generals in charge there didn't have control of the panzers the landing was a success.
3). The allies advanced only as fast as the german armor let them. Konigtigers and other heavy armor was used as road blocks and effectively stopped the allies at bridges and bottle necks.
4). Allied air ground support in europe was devoted to destroying supply convoys and trains. Only 2% of german tanks destroyed were by air firepower.
5). The attack in the Ardennes was dumb those units could have easily kept the allies from crossing the Rhine. What do expect when a politician decides he's a general.
6). As for german airpower they were foolishly squandered away in the Battle of Britian. Then were converted to defensive measures of buff busting.
7) In the Eastern front it's easy. Germans used the pincer movement to get to Stalingrad. Once there they got bogged down with taking the city that the Russians used the same pincer movement to capture 1.6 million german soldiers. Of which less than 100,000 returned to germany after the war.

Conclusion, A small country took on most of the world but in the end it was plain logistics that privailed. Resources like in all other wars determined the victors here. The sad part is that the victors also write the history books. So, a one sided opinion is usaully what the general population gets. Not until 60 years later when the dieing vets tell the truths about what really happened. We must sit and decide what to believe and then pass on our own opinions to the next generation.

Offline syncrII

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109's were really that bad?!!!
« Reply #47 on: March 09, 2005, 08:04:05 AM »
4). Allied air ground support in europe was devoted to destroying supply convoys and trains. Only 2% of german tanks destroyed were by air firepower.

only 2%? were did you get these nummber? i think it was alot higher than that.

cu chris3

Offline mechanic

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109's were really that bad?!!!
« Reply #48 on: March 09, 2005, 01:26:14 PM »
nyhow, back to the original thread.


the 109 is an awesome plane, anyone who cannot fly it will think it is unmanouveable and weak in many areas.



those who CAN fly it will land many kills with minimal effort.




the 109 is one of the most beautifull looking, and best performing a/c in AH2.  

here is my evidence:

http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/files/109E.ahf

that is all.
And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline JB73

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109's were really that bad?!!!
« Reply #49 on: March 09, 2005, 01:33:20 PM »
numbers of the 109 built include italy and others IIRC

many many young inexperianced pilots crashed them on landing and takeoff




didn't someone post the actual A to A stats on the 109, wasn't it a positive 1.5 k/d or something, one of the better stats?
I don't know what to put here yet.

Offline ATA

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109's were really that bad?!!!
« Reply #50 on: March 09, 2005, 04:49:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BlauK
ATA, I am sorry for pulling your leg. I just could not help regressing to the level of the first post in this thread ;)

No need to be sorry bro,i should've known it was a joke :aok

Offline GScholz

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109's were really that bad?!!!
« Reply #51 on: March 09, 2005, 06:43:30 PM »
In AH the 109G-10 has the ability to completely dominate all other non-perked fighters. If the 109 pilot flies to the 109's strengths and not to those of his enemies he is nearly untouchable.

... of course that might become boring in the long run.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline lada

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109's were really that bad?!!!
« Reply #52 on: March 09, 2005, 07:19:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mechanic
one simple answer.

Spitfires and hurricanes.




oh, and i suppose America helped out in a major way towards the end also.;)


everyone who fly british crap know, that Spits and Hurris are useless POS ... the only one supperior british airplane were TYPHOOONNNNN :D

Offline Nath_____

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109's were really that bad?!!!
« Reply #53 on: March 09, 2005, 07:57:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
In AH the 109G-10 has the ability to completely dominate all other non-perked fighters. If the 109 pilot flies to the 109's strengths and not to those of his enemies he is nearly untouchable.

... of course that might become boring in the long run.


I've never found flying a G10 to its strengths and weaknesses (which is knife fighting, aggressive angles and use of vertical in close angles fights) boring. Maybe your conception of what flying a G10 to its strengths is faulty?

Offline mars01

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109's were really that bad?!!!
« Reply #54 on: March 09, 2005, 08:50:58 PM »
Wings AKA Military Channel did a which is better comparison between the Spit and 109 , circa BOB.  Long story short they came out evenly matched.

The spit was able to turn inside of the 109, but the 109 had better guns.

The 109 was fuel injected and the spit I was aspirated.  No neg Gs for the spit.

There was one other category that I can't remember.  Bottom line was the were pretty even.

If you read any of the BOB books you will notice a common theme.  The germans come over in hordes, fighters high over bombers.  The RAF would send up small numbers to intercept.  As soon as the two merged each pilot was engaged in a duel to the death.  

Many times they said it was uncanney how one second there would not be anyone around you then a second later you could be surrouned by Germans, then suddenly you would be all alone again.


Nice troll though.  lol

Offline Skydancer

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109's were really that bad?!!!
« Reply #55 on: March 10, 2005, 02:11:00 AM »
bockko has a point there.

It may well be production capacity that won the war ultimately.

Sherman, T34 anyone? Both realy technicaly inferior to german equipment but produced in overwhelming numbers.

Production capacity in aircraft too. Or shipping or heck you name it.

And finaly reserves of manpower. Russia had huge reserves and didn't care too much about Its individual soldiers. likewise US tactics at times were profligate in their use of Human life, though not to the same extent as the soviets. Doubt me? Bloody Omaha,Hurtgen forest. etc


If none of this was true. Britain could of won the war alone could she not.

Offline GScholz

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109's were really that bad?!!!
« Reply #56 on: March 10, 2005, 03:36:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nath_____
I've never found flying a G10 to its strengths and weaknesses (which is knife fighting, aggressive angles and use of vertical in close angles fights) boring. Maybe your conception of what flying a G10 to its strengths is faulty?


Perhaps your conception of what is required to be "untouchable" in the MA faulty?
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Nath_____

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109's were really that bad?!!!
« Reply #57 on: March 10, 2005, 08:01:16 AM »
Flying a G10 to its strengths doesn't mean flying to be "untouchable" and getting no kills.

Offline Eagler

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109's were really that bad?!!!
« Reply #58 on: March 10, 2005, 09:09:52 AM »
they hosed the spitV vs 109f with the latest patch

dunno if more historical accurate but the spitV eats the 109f now when it used to be close
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Offline GScholz

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109's were really that bad?!!!
« Reply #59 on: March 10, 2005, 02:57:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nath_____
Flying a G10 to its strengths doesn't mean flying to be "untouchable" and getting no kills.


I'm sorry, but I do not allow other people to dictate what I mean. By “the 109’s strengths” I mean its speed, acceleration and climb rate. Between 5k and 25k the 109G-10 is superior to all other non-perked planes in those performance aspects.

As for getting no kills, that’s up to the skill of the pilot.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."