Vancouver Tries Free Heroin Program

[mora]

I don't like the idea of giving anything out for free. I would not object however, if it would be sold to those who obviously are unable to get clean with a doctors perscription at a reasonable price. A person who would be eligible would have had to fail subtitution treatment several times.

[Thrawn]

The governments are performing an unethical experiment with taxpayers dollars that may very likely lead to the deaths of the subjects, absolutely mindblowing.  

Can these addicts even give legal consent to this...lawyer types?

Originally posted by Nash
I can't blame addicts.

You can blame them for deciding to stick a needle in thier arm the first time.

[mora]

Originally posted by Thrawn
The governments are performing an unethical experiment with taxpayers dollars that may very likely lead to the deaths of the subjects, absolutely mindblowing.  

Why would it lead to more deaths than street heroin? The OD's result from the variation of the purity of street heroin. This stuff would be quality controlled.

The Dutch have been doing this for quite some time, and they have the lowest numbers of deaths from heroin. Heck there's more deaths from Heroin even in Finland, not to mention Norway than the Netherlands which has many times the population.

I'm sure they are not giving it just to anyone, which would be foolish.

[Siaf__csf]

You consider yourself normal? Strong in the head?

I got 10 of your co-workers that didn't even realize that you geek out nightly on a BBS that, upon knowing so, would say diferent....

Oh mister got-it-all-together.

Heh my co-workers know very well that I frequent different UBB's. I take a few hours posting on a UBB over heroin _any day_.

How many innocent sidestanders get shot through AH UBB crime annually? How many people get robbed because I have to get 'tha bandwith fixx' or 'shoot up some bull on O'club'? An OD of UBB makes you stop posting at maximum.  

Sounds to me like you're an addict yourself and feel attacked by my legitimate comment.

[Nash]

I think there's something about this that y'all gotta realize.

When yer talking about  an "addict", you are well beyond describing some dude that gets loud at a party.

And it's waaaaaaay past some dude who just never seems to quit.

unh-uh. It's in a completely different time zone. On a different planet.

Ya don't leave the house. Except to score.

And when ya do? 1-2 minutes max of semi-fun times. The rest of it is just coming up to a level where you can function. Can walk. Can lift things. It aint about cheap thrills.

At this point, it's about survival. Functioning.

And that's all. That's really all. That's really, really all there is to it.

It's not Disneyland.

Yer mental state?.... damn, you could write a book. You have absolutely no interest in whatever life you had before. It would be a lie to say that the world, your life, your future made any difference to you now.

It turns truth into lies. You are now lying in bed, doped up, and thinking that you know something that everyone else doesn't. And the "doesn't" is that nothing matters. At all. One bit.

shreck it all... everything...  a joke... a waste.

The phone rings. You usually don't answer. For months you don't answer. Until things get tight. Parents call? Yikes...... But see, they are out there, and I'm in here. Out there, is..... is.... nothingness. And too bad if they don't get it but I'm going to try and take them for everything they are worth.

Because they are out there... Normies... and they no longer matter. I don't matter. Nothing matters except that if I don't score a quarter right quick I am going to be REAL shrecking sick in a way that would make the common cold comparable to getting a massage by Bambi while sucking back fruity drinks with umbrellas or something.

Ah... I could go on and on...

Just say no.

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Nash
I think there's something about this that y'all gotta realize.

When yer talking about  an "addict", you are well beyond describing some dude that gets loud at a party.

And it's waaaaaaay past some dude who just never seems to quit.

unh-uh. It's in a completely different time zone. On a different planet.

Ya don't leave the house. Except to score.

And when ya do? 1-2 minutes max of semi-fun times. The rest of it is just coming up to a level where you can function. Can walk. Can lift things. It aint about cheap thrills.

At this point, it's about survival. Functioning.

And that's all. That's really all. That's really, really all there is to it.

It's not Disneyland.

Yer mental state?.... damn, you could write a book. You have absolutely no interest in whatever life you had before. It would be a lie to say that the world, your life, your future made any difference to you now.

It turns truth into lies. You are now lying in bed, doped up, and thinking that you know something that everyone else doesn't. And the "doesn't" is that nothing matters. At all. One bit.

shreck it all... everything...  a joke... a waste.

The phone rings. You usually don't answer. For months you don't answer. Until things get tight. Parents call? Yikes...... But see, they are out there, and I'm in here. Out there, is..... is.... nothingness. And too bad if they don't get it but I'm going to try and take them for everything they are worth.

Because they are out there... Normies... and they no longer matter. I don't matter. Nothing matters except that if I don't score a quarter right quick I am going to be REAL shrecking sick in a way that would make the common cold comparable to getting a massage by Bambi while sucking back fruity drinks with umbrellas or something.

Ah... I could go on and on...

Just say no.

Nash.

[Siaf__csf]

True Nash, however one must always remember that there's no such thing as 'safe use.'

If that guy gets 'loud at the parties' by chemical reaction he's already on the way to the gutter.

In addition, everyone who uses drugs recreationally is aiding the drug industry and causing more and more casualties as a direct result.

[mora]

Wow, that's a powerful description Nash.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
Interestingly it is kinda like the gun control issues.  More guns equal less crime....more drugs equal less drug use??????  Plus you take the illegal thrill out of it if it's free.

There might be some truth in that. As you know, Holland has a relaxed/tolerant attitude to drugs. I've even seen people in the very act of shooting up, right there in a shop doorway. The Dutch government recognised that there could be an AIDS epidemic if all those users were to be sharing needles, so they started the needle exchange programme. All a user had to do was to go along to the mobile unit - the needle bus - with a used syringe/needle, and he could get a brand new replacement free of charge. It's been a while since I read about this programme (my first visit to Amsterdam was in 1991) but I do faintly recall that heroin usage went down for the reason you said: The illegal thrill was partly removed, and also these people felt uncomfortable being helped by the state in this way.

Originally posted by NUKE
All I wanna do is have some fun till the sun goes over Santa Monica boulevard

...and I've a feeling, you're not the only one!

[mora]

Originally posted by Siaf__csf
True Nash, however one must always remember that there's no such thing as 'safe use.'

If that guy gets 'loud at the parties' by chemical reaction he's already on the way to the gutter.

Mostly yes, but there are some people who have done heroin occasionally and have gotten rid of it before going to total addiction.

There are differences between drugs. A person who gets "loud at parties" with X is unlikely to end up as an addict like Nash described. He's just slowly frying his brains.

I don't think Nash ever said anything about "safe use".

Originally posted by Siaf__csf
In addition, everyone who uses drugs recreationally is aiding the drug industry and causing more and more casualties as a direct result.

Yes, another reason which would support the legal supplying of drugs to addicts.

[NUKE]

Nash just gave about 99% of us a kick to the balls reality check about heroin addicts.

[Siaf__csf]

NUKE are you saying that what Nash posted was news to you?

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Siaf__csf
NUKE are you saying that what Nash posted was news to you?

I'm saying that he put it into words like few could or ever did. He slammed it home imho.

[Skydancer]

The free heroin programme, is not just giving out Heroin. it is only given to registered addicts in place of methadone. Rather than use methadone as treatment, health services in places like switzerland, and now it seems vancouver, will give registered addicts a maintainance dose of heroin.  
Methadone is not always  a very effective treatment. The withdrawel symptoms are said by many to be worse, and many addicts will still use Heroin whilst they are on a methadone program giving their methadone away.

"Recent evidence from Switzerland and the Netherlands suggests that prescribing heroin for people with long-term dependency problems can lead to health and social improvements where other treatments have failed. "

source:http://www.sourceuk.net/indexf.html?03915

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1759719.stm

"Heroin prescription scheme call
 Allowing GPs in Scotland to prescribe heroin could help cut drug-related crime and nuisance, according to drugs advisers.
The Scottish Drugs Forum has said users could be helped by prescribed heroin and it believes a pilot should be set up to study the benefits of the idea.

The Home Office is soon to announce prescribing pilot schemes in England.

The Scottish Executive said it would monitor these pilots, but had no plans to promote a similar initiative here.

Most Scottish heroin users who receive treatment from health board addiction services are prescribed methadone.

Chaotic lives

It is a substitute drug which helps users stabilise their lives by removing the need for them to commit crimes to raise money for drugs.

But an estimated 1,000 injecting drug users - about 4% of the Scottish total - never contact treatment services and live chaotic lives.

It is these users who Scottish Drugs Forum said could be helped by prescribed heroin.

The group said it would be in addition to existing methadone programmes and has been successful in Switzerland and the Netherlands.

Forum director David Liddell acknowledged there would be widespread opposition to the idea, but said a pilot could establish the benefits of heroin prescribing."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolpda/ukfs_news/hi/newsid_3702000/3702428.stm

So the Jury appears to be out. One issue that I think has a factor in this country is that it is cheaper to prescribe methadone than heroin. For a publicly funded health service that is a major issue.

Nash very well put by the way. A wake up call for those who know very little about the issue!

[Siaf__csf]

Well now they can put public support to the poor farmers in Afghanistan whose main income comes from poppy farming. Instead of destroying the crop, they buy them and shoot up the junkies to high heaven.

I can't imagine anything more disgusting than a junkie. The less there are, the better.