Author Topic: F6F vs Ki84 and P38s. (Read 3946 times)

Engine · « **Reply #15 on:** March 15, 2005, 12:22:02 PM »

nono! It's pointless. Abandon All Hope.

It's over from the start, don't bother engaging any 84s.

TequilaChaser · « **Reply #16 on:** March 15, 2005, 12:33:34 PM »

ROFL, I am ignoring Engine's last post!

Tex, you must learn everything that F6f-5 can do from the high speed end of the envelope to the stall speed end, finding out what this plane can do through out its entire flight envelope will open the door for more options and allow you to use them depending on the circumstances of which a fight is intiated regardless if you are the attacker or the defender. Knowing everything the plane can and can not do is ultimately important.

find out its corner velocity, its instantaneous turn rate/speed, its sustained turn rate speed, how slow can you really go, lowest speed for an immel, lowest speed for a double immel, lowest speed and lowest alt for a split S, etc inffinium!

learn everything about the plane! again, this will open up more doors for you to gain an upperhand.....

also, when to use flaps, when not to, how many notches of flaps do i need? roll rates with and without rudder, with and without flaps .

DamnedRen · « **Reply #17 on:** March 15, 2005, 12:39:43 PM »

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Originally posted by Engine
Aside for being extremely aggressive, or BnZing indefinitely (worse option), I really don't know what else the F6F can do against a Ki84. Then again, I'm not the bestest F6F pilot, so what do I know?

I didn't say BNZ him. I said use the vertical. And this time I spelled vertical right

A vertical fight doesn't neccesarily mean you're BNZ'n the guy.

IMHO a dogfight consists of many parts. It may be a pure knife fight that turns into a BNZ that turns into vertical fight that turns into a rolling scissors that turns back into a pure knife fight. Whew!

The good pilots can switch the fight tactically to suit the requirements of the unfolding fight. Anyone who purely BNZ's is loosing out other advantages he may have at his disposal. Learn to use it all is my point.

Back to a KI, if I bend him into a break turn with any speed on you can bet I'll take him right up into a chandelle. He can follow at his own peril. If he doesn't I'll carry the speed into a rolling turn to an immediate shot. Why give him a chance to recover. 'Sides, you are reconverting the "up" back into E.

wetrat · « **Reply #18 on:** March 15, 2005, 01:53:10 PM »

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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
never think this!

even if you know who the ki84 pilot is, and if you think he is a good pilot. Never enter a fight with the assumption he is better than you. Regardless of speed, always think , I can do this, I can beat this guy.

and follow the tips Redd, Goose, wetrat, Ren and others suggested. but never give in to losing before you ever get thru the 1st turn of the engagement. Regardless of who the other guy is flying the ki84, breaking the mindset of "he is better than me" is an important plateau to overcome!

Anyone can be better than any other on any given day! Regardless of the plane match-up

OK, an amendment to my afformentioned statement. If you fight me at low speeds Ki84 vs F6F, you're going to lose. There are better sticks than me, some of whom fly the 84 on occasion, so you'll lose to them too

99% of the people you'll encounter suck, so it really doesn't matter what kind of plane you're fighting.

I go in to fights assuming the other guy is an incompetent dweeb, and 19/20 times, I'm right. Sometimes I get burned if it's a good stick who either knows it me, or I do something sloppy that only works on noobs, but usually you can tell if it's someone competent pretty quick.

wetrat · « **Reply #19 on:** March 15, 2005, 01:58:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by DamnedRen
I didn't say BNZ him. I said use the vertical. And this time I spelled vertical right A vertical fight doesn't neccesarily mean you're BNZ'n the guy.

BAD idea. 84's build up E very quickly, and are nimble enough to make you bleed some if you want to try to E fight one. Once that E gets even marginally close, the 84 can follow you up very, very easily, and blow you away. The 84 keeps elevator authority well under 100mph, and can basically float on the prop while you flop over at the top of your zoom. However, the average pilot won't know how to do any of this, so it really doesn't matter 90% of the time. You'll just have to worry about really hard flat turns...

Engine · « **Reply #20 on:** March 15, 2005, 02:18:56 PM »

Hell, I almost never see another Ki84 in the air, and if I do, it's usually someone who knows what they're doing. It really is a spectacular performer, no idea why it doesn't see more usage. I do like it better this way, though.

DamnedRen · « **Reply #21 on:** March 15, 2005, 02:40:23 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Engine
Hell, I almost never see another Ki84 in the air, and if I do, it's usually someone who knows what they're doing. It really is a spectacular performer, no idea why it doesn't see more usage. I do like it better this way, though.

It's rips things off (and in order

) when going downhill. So you end up letting fast guys get away. If it didn't then it would be a very nice plane indeed. If I see a KI I go after it. Then again I'm not too particular.

Engine · « **Reply #22 on:** March 15, 2005, 02:53:28 PM »

Pffft, let em run. Not like much of anything is going to catch a pony or lala coward who's determined to get home. At least in a Ki84 it's easier to make em feel stupid for making botched pass after pass.

DamnedRen · « **Reply #23 on:** March 15, 2005, 04:03:26 PM »

Tiffie runs down a lot of ponys and la7's

Ren

GooseAW · « **Reply #24 on:** March 15, 2005, 04:09:00 PM »

Give me a 2k alt advantage over your KI-84 and I'll call the pieces that I'm gonna knock off with each pass.

Tex, practice your gunnery in the F6. It is the key to a winning record I believe. I keep my convergence set at 400 or better and am confident I can hit my target inside d600. Ask engine

When you in that KI dive at a shallow angle to see what he's gonna do, hover over him a sec if you have to, when he makes his move drop the nose and in aggressively. They will break flat if they're smart and expect you to pull out. Don't, you can turn with him at this point and with a little practice the fight is over. You need a slight E adv for this to be the case of course. I agree, fly the cat aggressively...to a point ....and it will treat you well.

I'm well over 800 against S HAWK in his higher D9. But that's a different thred altogether
LOVE my Kitty!;)

wetrat · « **Reply #25 on:** March 15, 2005, 05:40:38 PM »

shawk sucks though

Engine · « **Reply #26 on:** March 15, 2005, 06:20:10 PM »

Goose, did we fight at all this tour? I don't remember.

Oh wait, I guess we did.

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Engine has 1 kill and has been killed 0 times against GooseCH.

I AM THE BIGGER INTERNET TOUGH GUY! RAAAAWWWRRGGHULKRAGE

Soulyss · « **Reply #27 on:** March 15, 2005, 08:13:58 PM »

Schutt · « **Reply #28 on:** March 16, 2005, 02:13:48 AM »

I would advice you take a ride or two with greebo. He can fly that thing for sure. If i see a F6F cruising low on the deck i dont bother to attack anymore, chances are to high that its greebo.
Im still not sure what he does, but he uses the excelent low speed handling. Tries to get into a scissors style move and put the other plane off phase, so you get a reversal and eventually come at the other plane from 20 degrees off front to get a beautyfull shot on the whole profile of the enemy.

Wadke · « **Reply #29 on:** March 16, 2005, 02:25:20 AM »

Angles and E are your friend in F6F
When low and slow use your flaps and rudder to turn and burn.
F6F can hide energy extremely well and then it can dump that E in a hurry to stay on your tail.
I fly the thing exclusively. Though i'm not that great in it. Use angles and you can beat any plane you fly against. On a side note i've never gotten that thing to compress while diving.

Another thing you have to have is the confidence that no matter what plane your up against, you can beat him.

Yes i love the Hellcat.