Author Topic: pee or else...  (Read 1718 times)

Offline Nash

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« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2005, 12:17:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
the article said the HOSPITAL requested the URINE.


The cops requested the hospital to request (get) the urin.

This wasn't a medical situation.

Offline XNachoX

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« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2005, 12:19:35 AM »
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
AGAIN

the article said the HOSPITAL ___________ the URINE.


REQUESTED

Offline Furious

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« Reply #32 on: March 18, 2005, 12:40:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
If they suspect an overdose or the patient may be a danger to himself....yes they do....


A patient has the right  to refuse any  treatment.  The hospital has no rights to force treatment or testing.

Offline Furious

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« Reply #33 on: March 18, 2005, 12:43:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
Nevermind... I found it.


Where does the article say he was apprehended while driving?  

If you are just walking down the street, implied consent does not apply.

Offline Siaf__csf

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« Reply #34 on: March 18, 2005, 01:05:07 AM »
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It's the new Siaf Protocol!


If he was dealing at 18 I wouldn't have been that nice to him.

Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #35 on: March 18, 2005, 01:05:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Furious
A patient has the right  to refuse any  treatment.  The hospital has no rights to force treatment or testing.


nope.  Not if that patient is out of his mind so to speak.

If a guy walked into a hospital all cracked up and the hospital tried to treat him and then he caused harm to himself or somone else the hospital is liable.

look,

the article does not give that much information here but yes you can be forced to give a urine sample.  A hospital has the OBLIGATION to treat you.

Quote
Because Wheeler said he had used the drugs, Florida Hospital officials wanted a urine sample. A police affidavit said Wheeler wouldn't provide a sample on his own, so workers tried to catheterize him to get one.


it does not say the cops wanted it nore does it say that they told the hospital to get it.  Now you guys want to quote rights that's fine.  I'm all for civil rights.  At this guys trial the urine sample would probably NOT be able to be used as evidence against him

I'm only going by what the article says.

1.  A guy was in a hospital and said he'd used cocaine
2.  The hospital wanted a urine sample for unspecified reasons and the guy refused
3.  the guy then got Irate and violent
4.  The guy was restrained and was still irate and violent
5.  The police tried to restrain him further but he refused
6.  the police then taserd him and the guy gave in.

I would not want to be in his shoes but:

1.  I wouldn't be on cocaine in the first place
2.  I would do what the hospital staff asked because usually with them there's the "easy way" and the "hard way"
3.  once the police were involved that would be it.

If the hospital or the police violated his civil rights he would have the right to sue them after the fact.  Resisting and getting violent is still not the way to go.

Offline Siaf__csf

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« Reply #36 on: March 18, 2005, 01:08:04 AM »
Yeah but he was on dope Gunslinger. You think he spent one second thinking 'what's right?'

Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #37 on: March 18, 2005, 01:14:39 AM »
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Yeah but he was on dope Gunslinger. You think he spent one second thinking 'what's right?'


Exactly!

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #38 on: March 18, 2005, 01:35:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Furious
Where does the article say he was apprehended while driving?  

If you are just walking down the street, implied consent does not apply.


Excellent point.
sand

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #39 on: March 18, 2005, 02:03:38 AM »
Well, they taser elderly motorists for sounding the car horn, so... :(

Offline hyena426

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« Reply #40 on: March 18, 2005, 02:29:36 AM »
if he was driving they sure can make him...my brother has a cdl and drives coast to coast..he said they use to be able to pull you over in those vans and make you pee right in the back of them..and i said no way!!..and he said,yup...goes for you 2..i was like what? he said if they think your messed up they can make you do the same thing..he seen it all the time happen to other truck drivers and regular drivers..but he said they mostly targeted truck drivers with the d.o.t vans..lol


im not sure if it was right to tazer this guy..counts how unruley he was getting i guess...i know a guy at my freinds work got out of controll and wouldnt leave the break room..cops had to come to his work..and the guy still wouldnt leave..so they went to grab him and he freaked out and hit one with a chair,,lol they pepper sprayed him and dragged him out..being out of controll will give them the right to tazer or mess you up..lol

Offline Shamus

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« Reply #41 on: March 18, 2005, 07:25:05 AM »
one of the cats

FSO Jagdgeschwader 11

Offline JAGED

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« Reply #42 on: March 18, 2005, 07:37:18 AM »
"I post facts.   If I post anything thats not a fact, I ask if people know whether it is fact or drivel first..."    SkyRock (ROFL LMFAO)

Offline mora

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« Reply #43 on: March 18, 2005, 07:42:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by hyena426
if he was driving they sure can make him...my brother has a cdl and drives coast to coast..he said they use to be able to pull you over in those vans and make you pee right in the back of them..and i said no way!!..and he said,yup...goes for you 2..i was like what? he said if they think your messed up they can make you do the same thing..he seen it all the time happen to other truck drivers and regular drivers..but he said they mostly targeted truck drivers with the d.o.t vans..lol


im not sure if it was right to tazer this guy..counts how unruley he was getting i guess...i know a guy at my freinds work got out of controll and wouldnt leave the break room..cops had to come to his work..and the guy still wouldnt leave..so they went to grab him and he freaked out and hit one with a chair,,lol they pepper sprayed him and dragged him out..being out of controll will give them the right to tazer or mess you up..lol


I have a hard time believing this. Someone actually mentioned in another thread that you cannot be convicted from a DWI based on a urine sample.

I don't see the point of urine testing a person who seems intoxicated. Depending on the drug it might take some time before  it's even visible in urine. Besides you couln't even know if the person was driving while intoxicated when he took those drugs.

Traffic tests should be done from blood, not from urine.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2005, 07:45:04 AM by mora »

Offline DoctorYO

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« Reply #44 on: March 18, 2005, 08:37:28 AM »
well the guy is saying all the right things..

Things like fear, rape, scarred etc..  he's being coached..

IMO he will get paid..  

its only a matter of who is at fault..  if the hospital employee asked for help then the liability will be on the hospital employee, (most have their own security were they alerted?) if the officer acted on his own..  saddling a handcuffed man then tasering him claiming he was a threat while handcuffed /saddled and strapped down is far fetched..

trial lawyer will eat up any testimony the officer has becuase the subject was handcuffed and strapped down..

this isn't even taking into 4th admendment violations of forced sample taking which could be contrued as cruel and unusual punishment..  all the lawyer will do is run a statistic of forced attempts / successes and overwall statistics of the the alledged crime (dope slinging)  when the results show that its highly unusual to get a sample / conviction in that matter cruel and unusual will be established and he'll walk...  then whatever civil proceeding will then take place..  a rather large one considering he's talking rape etc...  

a drug investigation does not give you the right attack the man in the way they did.. i could understand if he just committed murder or vehicular manslaughter and evidence needed to be collected, but tasering for failing to comply while cuffed and people trying to jam things up your noodle could easily be construed as torture.....  the prefered method would have been sedation (by hospital staff if he was flailing about..)

Then take the sample..  (even then though the evidence is tainted thru forced sample. and a clever attorney may have it tossed..)

IMO he'll get paid..    Florida is sue happy plenty of sharks down here.. (lawyers that are seeing big dollar signs right now)

DoctorYo