Author Topic: Murder...  (Read 1625 times)

Offline lasersailor184

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Murder...
« on: March 18, 2005, 05:24:18 PM »
I say **** it.  We need to try Michael Schiavo, Greer and any hospital staff who pulled the plug on Terry for murder.
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Offline rabbidrabbit

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Murder...
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2005, 05:25:18 PM »
why?

Offline GtoRA2

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Murder...
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2005, 05:25:27 PM »
She is not dead yet is she? Can they not put the tube back in?

Offline lasersailor184

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Murder...
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2005, 05:34:53 PM »
Fine.  Attempted murder.  3 counts.  This is the third time they've tried to murder her.
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Offline Thrawn

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Murder...
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2005, 06:22:51 PM »
It's not murder if it's not illegal.

Offline lasersailor184

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Murder...
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2005, 06:39:53 PM »
Thrawn, how would you define the premeditated killing of someone?
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Offline eagl

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Murder...
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2005, 06:41:14 PM »
Hmmm.  So you're saying that it's murder to not impose care on people who are unable to survive without extreme external measures?

What if Terry's heart gave out, but they had a blood pump handy?  Would it be murder to not hook that up?  What if she quit breathing on her own?  Would it be murder if we didn't hook up the iron lung?  What if her kidneys gave out?  Would it be murder to not hook her up to a dialysis machine?  What if she got pneumonia and lost most of her lung function?  Would it be murder if we didn't give her a lung transplant?

Do you see the problem here?  Where do you draw the line when you're dealing with a human being who not only will die if care is not systematically provided, but who also does not even show classical survival instincts to even attempt to care for themselves?  When no brain function is present beyond that you would expect from a houseplant?  Does it become murder to stop watering a houseplant?

How about the homeless man on the street outside the hospital?  Does it become murder to not provide food and shelter to that person, free of charge?  Better yet, should you charge the relatives of a homeless man who dies on the street with murder, because they did not provide life support?

It's a pretty complicated issue.  My Grandfather died last year after he went into a coma following a decade of declining health.  He HAD provided clear, legal guidance that he was not to be forcefed in that event this happened, and he died a week or two later.  If he hadn't given that guidance, should the hospital have been charged with murder if they had simply let an old man die when it was his time to go?  Or should society have forced the hospital to keep my grandfather plugged into every machine possible?  I am very certain that my grandfather would have "lived" (ie kept breathing) for another couple of years if he'd been kept alive by extreme artificial means.  Although he had multiple serious health problems, they were nothing that a completely sterile environment, forced breathing and feeding, blood filtering, and another couple of million bucks of treatment per year couldn't have overcome if the goal were to simply keep his heart beating.

Murder?  There's a pretty wide gray line between society's obligation to care for the indigent and murder, and people need to really think through their position when they draw their line in that gray area, because it opens up liability in areas we simply can't or don't want to go to.  Am I a murderer for not giving more money to unicef?  At some point we have to realize we can't always fight nature, and we need to smartly decide when it makes sense to allocate scarce resources in the fight against natural mortality.
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Offline john9001

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Murder...
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2005, 06:50:14 PM »
she's not on LIFE SUPPORT, it's just a IV feeding tube.

i agree, it's pre-med murder.

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Murder...
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2005, 06:57:13 PM »
There is no living will in this case, no written instructions either. There is only the word of her husband, who has everything to gain by her death. In a criminal case, it would be called hearsay and not admissable.

The husband who is demanding the denial of food and water has every reason to want the patient dead. He gets a lot of money, and he gets to marry another woman.

We are not talking about an unbiased party here. We are not talking about a husband who has acted in the best interest of the patient here. The patient has NEVER received the care promised from the beginning.

We are not talking about a comatose patient either. She is awake, at least somewhat aware, needs no help breathing. Having seen video tapes of the patient, I have a very hard time buying the persistent vegitative state declaration. She responds to stimuli.

This is not a case of turning a switch and having a comatose patient die within seconds or minutes. This is a case of deliberate starvation of a patient who is at least somewhat awake and aware, and a lingering painful death for that patient. A convicted criminal would not be allowed to suffer that way. Neither should this patient, especially without DIRECT evidence of her wishes.
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Offline Tumor

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Murder...
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2005, 07:04:40 PM »
We should just start pulling the plug on anyone who can't take care of themselves.... no sense wasting MONEY on the needy.
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Offline Nash

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Murder...
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2005, 07:17:07 PM »
It is bewildering to me all this talk of the husband manipulating the situation so that he can get rid of his wife and marry some girlfriend. The language used by folks here and out there is suggesting exactly that.

But his wife has been in this state for FIFTEEN YEARS.

Yes... her husband has everything to gain. Like, perhaps, refashioning some semblance of his life back before he too dies? Moving on?

Oh, what a monster.

For all the talk about havin' people/government not meddle in your life, there sure seems to be a demand for it.

Offline Sikboy

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Murder...
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2005, 07:30:45 PM »
I weep when I think of all the starving children who could have been saved with one weeks worth of whatever ooze they were pumping into that egg plant.

:rolleyes:

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Offline john9001

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Murder...
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2005, 07:37:37 PM »
nash, he can get a divorce anytime, but he would lose all the money.

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2005, 07:43:14 PM »
All Michael Schiavo needs to do to get on with his life is sign divorce papers.

I doubt any children went hungry because of what Terry Schiavo has been fed through her tube.
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Offline Nash

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Murder...
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2005, 07:49:00 PM »
What difference does that make...

Do you want her to live for her? Or for you?