Author Topic: Shiavo case (Read 2750 times)

Raider179 · « **Reply #120 on:** March 21, 2005, 01:00:37 PM »

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Originally posted by JB73
all you proponents of letting her die, answer me this question.

if she was so set on NOT being kept alive, as her husband claims, why did he let her last even 1 month back when this happened?

he let this go on for many years... for what?

I think to give her a chance...Then when she made no progress he started the process.

Raider179 · « **Reply #121 on:** March 21, 2005, 01:03:52 PM »

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Originally posted by genozaur
Sorry, Raider, but the world around you is not a black-and-white picture.
I am glad that you are still in your youthful dualistic state of mind (good - bad, blondes - brunettes, yes - no).
But the world is much more complicated than that - not only different shades of gray matter, but there are also totally different colours that matter in various environments and under the changing curcumstances.

Genz I asked a simple yes or no question. If you were in her place would you want to be kept like that? it is a yes or no. It isn't gray. it isnt anything other than a simple question. See my point being is I think most of us would say No I wouldnt want to be kept like that. So what would make you think she would?

Your analogies although colorful are pointless. I know that everything is not black and white but just answer yes or no. WOULD YOU WANT TO BE KEPT LIKE THAT? no disclaimers, no little clever ways of not answering just say yes I would like to be kept alive if I was in her position or no I would rather starve for 2 weeks. Thanks.

Mighty1 · « **Reply #122 on:** March 21, 2005, 02:27:34 PM »

Is "Hell NO!" to many words?

I see "quality of life" thrown around from time to time and for me that seems to be one of the most important things to consider.

I understand both sides but I try to look at it as if it was me and there is no way in hell I would want to be kept alive. Regardless of if there was a chance I could make a partial recovery.

If someone was going to have to care for me for the rest of my life then pull the tube now.

Raider179 · « **Reply #123 on:** March 21, 2005, 03:07:00 PM »

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Originally posted by Mighty1
Is "Hell NO!" to many words?

I see "quality of life" thrown around from time to time and for me that seems to be one of the most important things to consider.

I understand both sides but I try to look at it as if it was me and there is no way in hell I would want to be kept alive. Regardless of if there was a chance I could make a partial recovery.

If someone was going to have to care for me for the rest of my life then pull the tube now.

ty Mighty1 that is the answer I would expect from 90% of people.

Thrawn · « **Reply #124 on:** March 21, 2005, 03:26:04 PM »

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Originally posted by genozaur
Nash, there is no streightforwardly direct correlation between the size of the brain and mental abilities.

Which really has nothing to do with this case. As we aren't just talking about a smaller brain, but a brain that is half destroyed.

Why do people think that the husband is the only person that heard her say she didn't want to live like that. Both his brother and sister testifed that they heard her say it also.

g00b · « **Reply #125 on:** March 21, 2005, 03:27:53 PM »

Not eating or starving ones-self to death is pretty much the only method left to the terminally ill to end their suffering. You want to take this right away? You want to force people to live as a burden when they have expressed to their Spouse's/friends/family that they would not want to live like that? I know you can say "get a living will" but many people don't have one and die unexpectedly. You want the government to make these very personal decisions instead of the persons loved ones?

g00b

Nash · « **Reply #126 on:** March 21, 2005, 03:57:27 PM »

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Originally posted by Toad
...If so, a criminal investigation.

Saw the dude on CNN - Larry King last night. It's being replayed tonight at 9pm EST. I got a huge part of the story that isn't being told. You can check out the guy's character for yourself. Lets just say that a criminal investigation is not gonna happen (kookoo, even?).

Toad · « **Reply #127 on:** March 21, 2005, 04:03:58 PM »

Nash, that's a bit too cryptic.

What part isn't being told? Is the guy a Saint or something?

Chairboy · « **Reply #128 on:** March 21, 2005, 04:45:14 PM »

Perhaps the real thing we should all take away from this is a lesson in the importance of involving your family in knowing what your wishes are. Organ donors have to do this already (make sure their family knows that they want to be organ donors so some hyperanxious relative doesn't derail the process). Arguably, those who would NOT want to be kept alive in a perisistent vegetative state backed up by medical imaging (as is the case here) that shows beyond a reasonable doubt that recovery is not gonna happen, should tell their families.

I have told my wife that I would NOT want to be kept alive on a machine in this situation, and she's told me the same. The next step is to let my parents know, as well as write it down (I believe it's called a 'living will?').

ChickenHawk · « **Reply #129 on:** March 21, 2005, 06:02:45 PM »

Regardless of the morality of starving her verses keeping her alive in her vegetative state, congress doesn't belong anywhere near this case.

If they want to be the morality police, they should be spending their time trying to get inocent people off death row or out of prison.

Why don't they you ask? Because it's not their fricking job!!!!

TweetyBird · « **Reply #130 on:** March 21, 2005, 06:35:52 PM »

>>If they want to be the morality police, they should be spending their time trying to get inocent people off death row or out of prison.
<<

Yea congress should spend more time getting murderers off of death row and letting others starve disabled people

If a dog was in a vegetative state it would not be starved to death. But its ok to starve a human to death? What kind of wacko world are we living in?

The disgusting part is this woman were an animal you'd have every wacky liberal on capital hill carrying posters to save her life.
The Liberals and humanists have positively went over the deep end.

Nash · « **Reply #131 on:** March 21, 2005, 06:48:29 PM »

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The large “blue blobs” in the middle are ventricles, also present in healthy brains (you can see the two little dark crescent shapes in the brain on the right) that have expanded to such a large size because the overall brain volume is so low. Cranial space that would otherwize have been filled by gray matter is now filled with cerebrospinal fluid. And yes, that’s what the blue space is: cerebrospinal fluid that is filling up space left behind by necrotic brain tissue that has been scavenged and removed by the body. The white squiggly things are white matter - connective tracts that have the loose, uncoiled look about them that they do because, again, the grey matter that once compressed them is no longer there, so they “float” loosely in CSF.

She cannot come back because there is no back to come back to.

TweetyBird · « **Reply #132 on:** March 21, 2005, 06:54:27 PM »

All these people who so greatly respect the cerebral cortex would go nuts if someone stomped a chicken to death. Yet they see no problem starving a human to death. Just when you think we can get no nuttier, something shows we are a country of kneejerk, arogant morons.

midnight Target · « **Reply #133 on:** March 21, 2005, 06:58:43 PM »

Give up Nash... this one's about as useless as trying to sell ice to Calgary.

The funny thing is that everyone wants to believe that the Florida courts are all buffoons and have done nothing but blindfold themselves and throw darts at a board over the last 15 years.

Nash · « **Reply #134 on:** March 21, 2005, 07:01:49 PM »

Oh the poor puppies... or chickens...

Removing the feeding tube has been done for ages. Might I remind you once again that as Governer of Texas, Bush signed into law the removal of feeding tubes if the patient was in a condition like Terri's but couldn't pay for their care.

It goes like this: The hospital can say "hopeless", but will still treat the patient if they'll get paid for it. If they can't get paid for it, the patient is free to find another hospital for their care. Since no other hospital will take the non-paying patient, the tubes/respirator/whatever is removed.

This stuff isn't new. It didn't begin with Terri. Only the hysteria did. Why the hysteria? Why have we found out about this one case in a sea of simular cases? Interesting question....