Author Topic: Students Killed in school shooting...  (Read 5848 times)

Offline Finrod

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Students Killed in school shooting...
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2005, 06:51:15 AM »
My point exactly. Why did this kid go ballistic. In my day we would gather our buddies around us and find a good time to get even. I don't think I've entirely dismissed the HOW, I just think the WHY is what we should first wonder about. Why are kids today doing this when they didn't committ such acts in the past?

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2005, 07:17:13 AM »
blow it beetle

may the dead children and their families find peace
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Offline Fishu

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« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2005, 07:27:59 AM »
It seems to be some kind of a new trend for the suicidal youth nowadays.
Instead of them simply doing a suicide, they seem to decide to also put up a show the world will remember...

This could been also linked to the columbine shootings, as the guy had book(s) about it: http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/02/13/mall.shooting/index.html

I wonder if they find columbine related material from the latest shooter.

btw. I was at the mall two days prior to the shooting, only over 7000km away from my home.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2005, 08:07:33 AM »
America is number thirty one on the hit parade for suicide behind a lot of UK countries and japan that has no guns at all.

beetle is suggesting that stronger gun control would save the odd 5 or six school shooting deaths every half a decade or so in a country of allmost 300 million people... great way to sensationalize eh?  

now... where is there better gun control than at schools?  What is it?  like no guns at all within 500 yards of a school?  schools have more draconian gun laws than england.

yet... there are shootings in schools..  There are plenty of gun ranges and cop shops and cop bars and places where guns are plentiful and everyone knows it tho in the U.S.

How many shootings happen there?

There would be no school shootings if concealed carry were allowed for teachers...

Beetle wants to sensationalize... I find it goulish to do so.   I blame the do gooder gun control advocates.

lazs

Offline Curval

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« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2005, 08:22:29 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
America is number thirty one on the hit parade for suicide behind a lot of UK countries and japan that has no guns at all.


Where does the US rank for suicides after rampages in which the person kills themselves after killing innocents?  My guess is numero uno.

The suicides in the UK. Japan etc are mostly ones in which the only person who dies is just the person who doesn't want to live.
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Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2005, 08:30:03 AM »
A valid point has been made about the difference between today's youth and those of the past.

The different generations are not at all the same.

I, too, grew up during a time and in a place where EVERY child had access to firearms.  There wasn't a young male who didn't hunt and fish and carry shotguns to school in the trunk in order to be prepared for an afternoon afield.

During the first four decades of my life there was never an incident in the state of Arkansas where one student shot another.

The were any number of reasons why we didn't declare war on each other.  First, our fathers took a personal interest in what we were doing.  They spent time with us and taught us gun safety and personal responsibility.  More importantly, we were taught respect for others.  

Secondly, there was no gang culture in our schools.  If two guys had a difference of opinion, they duked it out and then forgot about it.  They did not get five more guys together and attempt to snuff the other guy's lights out.

Lastly, we were not as spoiled as the generation of our grandchildren.  I can't emphasize this enough.  Having observed the development of American society for at least half a century I have come to the conclusion that the level of violence amongst our youth and our society is in direct proportion to how egotistical, self-centered, and nihilistic a given generation is.

Many parents today do not deny their kids anything.  Watch the new show The Nanny sometimes.  The feather-headed notions about child-rearing exhibited by the parents is fairly typical of many American families.

Ya wanna let a three-year-old cross the street by himself, well, that's perfectly fine with ole dad!  

Junior wants to punk his hair and get tattoos and watch hate-filled gangsta-rappa-all-my-buds-are-bad-ass-gun-totin-blount-smokin-ho-beatin-studs... then let him.

If 12 year old Susie wants to put on tons of makeup, bare her mid-riff and wear cut-off jeans with lots of derrier showing, well...mom is perfectly willing.

But...and most especially...when they get in trouble at school or on the streets or in someone else's home the parents teach them that they are neverevernever going to be held responsible for their actions.

Is it any wonder that a culture of youth-punk-gang-substance-abuse-is-cool-and-respectful-kids-should-be-picked-on mentality has spread across the country like a cancer?

Now some of you are obsessing over a symptom and ignoring the root causes of the problem.

If fathers were to become fathers and taught responsibility and respect and mothers became mothers and not advocates for their children then the cause of much of this violence would disappear.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2005, 08:42:33 AM by Shuckins »

Offline Finrod

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« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2005, 08:37:57 AM »
Well said.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2005, 08:40:02 AM »
the kids don't commit suicide by going on a shooting rampage at the police station or at a shooting range.

Guns are a deterent to this type of egotistical crime.  School shootings are allmost nonexistent since ARMED cops have been on campus in most schools... if even 10% of teachers were allowed to carry concealed there would probly never be anopther school shooting.

my point remains..  school shootings point out how making the inocent vulnerable (sheep to the slaughter) is not the best policy.

People in the U.S. are much more virulent than watered down blooded brits and such.... you give the worst of em a place where they are guarenteed to be the most dangerous person there and they will kill as many as they can before they blow out their rotted out brains.

but..most, not all but most are cowardly.   they won't even start if they think someone will pull out a gun and do them in before they kill enough to catch beetles hand wringing attention.

there are some tho that commit suicide by cop...  they force cops to kill em...they are relatively rare and... our suicide rate is not that high.

I suppose that the pressure of not having any individuality or right to defend yourself is the reason the other countries have such a hitgh suicide rate.... that and because they are so stressed from trying to make the U.S. be more like them.

lazs

Offline FUNKED1

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« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2005, 08:54:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ben Franklin
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2005, 09:14:27 AM »
exactly funked...I wouldn't trade living here and our gun homicides for any aspect of living as a british ciizen... it is all bad so far as I can see including the weather.

It is not I that should apoloidgize to the parents of these teens.   It is the foolish gun control nuts who made sure that the only people that are armed at a school are the insane criminals who would cause such a slaughter who need to beg for the forgivness of the parents.   They allowed this to happen.

lazs

Offline Toad

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« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2005, 09:20:04 AM »
In my ancient times, the '60's, it was ROUTINE for many students to bring guns to school. We left them in the car though, because right after school let out we went hunting. Happened every Fall; no one thought a thing about it. No gun rampages in school.

So what's the difference? What changed?

I'm sure you all saw this one:

Cops: Man Goes On Killing Spree With Baseball Bat

Quote
Michael Brown, 48, called police about 7 a.m. Sunday and confessed to killing his mother, stepfather and brother in their home in the 11000 block of Delphinus Way in Mira Mesa, San Diego homicide Lt. Kevin Rooney said.

Police discovered one victim in a bedroom and two in the living room when they arrived, Rooney said.

Police said all the victims were found with head trauma


or maybe this one:

Paperboy busted for bashing mother to death with baseball bat

Quote
At around 3:15 a.m., Ishikiri hit his 60-year-old mother with a metal baseball bat more than 10 times about 300 meters from their home in Momoishi, police said.

Alerted by a nearby resident, police officers rushed to the scene, and found the victim lying dead, bleeding from her head. Police interrogated Ishikiri who was standing by his mother's body, and arrested him after he admitted to having hit her. (Mainichi Shimbun, Japan, March 21, 2005)
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Offline Sandman

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« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2005, 09:31:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins
A valid point has been made about the difference between today's youth and those of the past.

The different generations are not at all the same.

I, too, grew up during a time and in a place where EVERY child had access to firearms.  There wasn't a young male who didn't hunt and fish and carry shotguns to school in the trunk in order to be prepared for an afternoon afield.

During the first four decades of my life there was never an incident in the state of Arkansas where one student shot another.

The were any number of reasons why we didn't declare war on each other.  First, our fathers took a personal interest in what we were doing.  They spent time with us and taught us gun safety and personal responsibility.  More importantly, we were taught respect for others.  

Secondly, there was no gang culture in our schools.  If two guys had a difference of opinion, they duked it out and then forgot about it.  They did not get five more guys together and attempt to snuff the other guy's lights out.

Lastly, we were not as spoiled as the generation of our grandchildren.  I can't emphasize this enough.  Having observed the development of American society for at least half a century I have come to the conclusion that the level of violence amongst our youth and our society is in direct proportion to how egotistical, self-centered, and nihilistic a given generation is.

Many parents today do not deny their kids anything.  Watch the new show The Nanny sometimes.  The feather-headed notions about child-rearing exhibited by the parents is fairly typical of many American families.

Ya wanna let a three-year-old cross the street by himself, well, that's perfectly fine with ole dad!  

Junior wants to punk his hair and get tattoos and watch hate-filled gangsta-rappa-all-my-buds-are-bad-ass-gun-totin-blount-smokin-ho-beatin-studs... then let him.

If 12 year old Susie wants to put on tons of makeup, bare her mid-riff and wear cut-off jeans with lots of derrier showing, well...mom is perfectly willing.

But...and most especially...when they get in trouble at school or on the streets or in someone else's home the parents teach them that they are neverevernever going to be held responsible for their actions.

Is it any wonder that a culture of youth-punk-gang-substance-abuse-is-cool-and-respectful-kids-should-be-picked-on mentality has spread across the country like a cancer?

Now some of you are obsessing over a symptom and ignoring the root causes of the problem.

If fathers were to become fathers and taught responsibility and respect and mothers became mothers and not advocates for their children then the cause of much of this violence would disappear.


I think you can point to a lot of different  problems that contribute to the decline in our society. I don't necessarily agree with the perception, but for the sake of the discussion, I'll go with it.

I wouldn't consider anything we see on "The Nanny" to be typical. It's a televison show. They're not interested in the average family. They're going to get the most dysfunctional families they can find because it's good for ratings.

I'd wager that most of us over the age of 30 or 40 didn't grow up with two working parents. Our father went to work and our mother stayed home. I'm not certain how this can be quantified, but I believe that there truly is a societal cost to leaving our children home alone and unsupervised.

As for gang shootings and the like, I don't believe this is a gun issue at all. This is a lack of parenting coupled with poverty. Bad combination and it's going  to result in bloody streets.


You can ban the guns, but the root cause(s) for this sort of societal malaise will remain and the violence will manifest in other forms.
sand

Offline Curval

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« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2005, 09:48:37 AM »
Two twins went missing here recently.  They are involved in some sort of theft from an underground gambling place.  

This is clear proof gun control doesn't work.

Why?  I'm not sure.
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Offline Muckmaw1

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« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2005, 09:51:29 AM »
Apparently the shooters Grandfather was a cop, or former cop.

That's where this piece of **** got the weapons.

The gun control argument is mute here, unless you are arguing that the police should not be armed as well.

I wonder if the school security guard was armed.

Offline john9001

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« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2005, 10:09:56 AM »
the school security guard was not armed. perhaps because it would present a bad image.