!#$% at the Pump

[Skydancer]

Ok so maybe fuel cell technology is not the short term answer! ( this is an interesting thread )

And as Jackal1 says
"I don`t really see anything going over real big in the U.S. for a long, long time other than the internal combustion engine."
The same is probably true all over. Particularly in countries like US, Russia and Australia where range is important.

So it would seem the answer lies in working out how to power the combustion engine using alternative fuels. more fuel efficiency in the short term. Like Ford's zetech lean burmn engine? A replacement fuel that can be burnt in I.C.Es  in the medium term, and replacement of the I.C.E in the long term.

Sounds so simple but it won't happen all the while Oil companies have the stranglehold.

[Maverick]

The oil companies are not going to be the problem. For any technology to really take off it has to perform a function that is needed and do so in an economical manner. If it costs 5 times as much to run a vehicle on biodiesel (just to pick one thing out of the air) there is no incentive to switch for the consumer. As soon as a viable alternative that performs as well and cost is competitive then you have a technology that will take off.

There is precedent, think jet engine for cargo / passenger travel. If it hadn't been competitive we'd still be flying radial engines on airliners.

[bustr]

Anyone looked at "Browns Gas"? guy in Australia runs his car on it. Created from tap water. Is used formost for welding.

[bustr]

Anyone looked at "Browns Gas"? Sorry something funky with my browser tought this did not post.......

[BaDkaRmA158Th]

We just need to make cars like big slot cars, and just have everyone run on the same track, same speed.

Yeah so you wouldnt have the same freedome to be a dick and cut someone off,so you wouldnt have the risk of spining out on ice and killing a family of people driveing in the other direction, so you would still get the same place 15 seconds faster.

Fact is, cars are on there way out, look at major citys,wall to wall cars,cars,cars,cars..morons.

You think the fule will have any diffrence in the future? hell in 50 more years the world population will triple, fule will be the last thing we worry about, waiting 15 mins to change into the otherlane because of over population and over use of cars,most all being driven by ONE person.

Start car polling you morons.
that or cut a hole in the floor,start screaming yabadaba do, and get over it.









Ps. when saying morons im talking more to the world in general, more than anyone here on this bbs. cause you can all go *** yourself and i could care less about you wants,opinions and needs. as you could all for mine.

[DieAz]

Originally posted by Seagoon
The wonderful thing about capitalism is that greed is generally balanced out in the kind of ways that don't occur in managed economies. To whit, the agricultural combines in this country (like Con-Agra, ADM, etc.) are almost as powerful as the Oil Companies, and some have even more legislative clout. If they thought for a moment that there was some way to make the entire US economy absolutely dependent on Soybean Oil (or Algae Ponds) there wouldn't be any stopping the legislative steamroller in the same way that awful ethanols are now mandated at the pumps in several states, and since these are the companies that would utterly dominate full scale bio-diesel production, it seems to me that they must see some sort of hurdles or they'd be pouring R&D and Lobbying dollars into this.

- SEAGOON

read what you wrote very carefully. you answered your own questions.

[Skydancer]

So how about LPG then? Lots of people who run big SUVs or most of our buses (in Birmingham anyhow) run on it. The only problem I see is that its not that widely available yet. But it seems a good solution.

[Excel1]

Originally posted by Skydancer
So how about LPG then? Lots of people who run big SUVs or most of our buses (in Birmingham anyhow) run on it. The only problem I see is that its not that widely available yet. But it seems a good solution.

My farm truck, a 1980 TK Bedford runs on LPG.

Alternative fuels like LPG and CNG have been used in NZ for decades. After the oil shocks in the 1970s the government encouraged the use of both gasess by offering insentives to make it economical for people to convert their vehicles too run on them. But these days the gases are not as popular as they use to be because the goverment removed the insentives to use them, like reducing the price differential between the gases and diesel/petrol, to the point where in most cases its's actually cheaper to burn petrol or diesel. The oil companies, using their multinational clout, are mostly to blame for this... they make more profit selling petrol and diesel than LPG/CNG.

Excel

[Holden McGroin]

LPG is a mixture of butane and propane in different proportions obtained as a by-product of oil refining. That does not get us away from oil or Carbon Dioxide emission.

If we went back to Coal Gas, Britain could be self sufficient for decades without oil, and the US could cover it entire energy requirement at present levels for 700 to 800 years.

'course, CO2 still a problem.

[Skydancer]

Ahhh the sting in the tail. C02

[Seagoon]

Thanks for the answers, learned a lot.

Hey, here's a possible Bio-Diesel con: wouldn't driving a car that created a smell like a deep frier create serious munchy problems in cities like Seattle, wouldn't want to get blamed for contributing to stoner obesity.

- SEAGOON

[Excel1]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
LPG is a mixture of butane and propane in different proportions obtained as a by-product of oil refining. That does not get us away from oil or Carbon Dioxide emission.

In NZ LPG is extracted from localy produced natural gas and not through oil refining. So it made sense to use a cheaper, cleaner burning, localy produced fuel that produced lower emissions than either petrol or diesel and at the same time saved  the country a chitload of $$$$ through having to import less refined and crude oil.

But the greedy oil companies wouldn't get with the programme.
They didn't want LPG eating into the obscene profits they made from imported oil.

Excel

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Seagoon

Hey, here's a possible Bio-Diesel con: wouldn't driving a car that created a smell like a deep frier create serious munchy problems in cities like Seattle, wouldn't want to get blamed for contributing to stoner obesity.

- SEAGOON

 The second hand munchies effect.