Author Topic: Euthanasia in the News: Parents Make the Decision Everyday.  (Read 837 times)

Offline eskimo2

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7207
      • hallbuzz.com
Euthanasia in the News: Parents Make the Decision Everyday.
« on: March 27, 2005, 07:34:05 PM »
The Terri Schiavo case has drawn a lot of attention to euthanasia lately.  There is an aspect of euthanasia/hospice that I bet most folks are unaware of; let me begin by describing my introduction to this dilemma:

As some of you know, my wife recently gave birth to our third child; she was born 11 weeks premature and luckily, is doing very well.  When my wife’s water broke at 25 weeks our odds of bringing home a healthy child were dismal.  For the month that my wife was in the hospital, I studied extreme prematurely extensively.  

Babies that are born extremely premature have a very poor chance of survival.  Before 22 weeks gestation, babies pretty much never survive.  If born during the 22nd week the chance of survival is about 10%.  Mother’s race, age and other factors can increase or decrease the odds.  Quality of hospital and prenatal care also make a big difference.  Birth weight and sex of the baby can make a big difference.  Mostly it just comes down to luck; some kids are born with serious brain bleeds and don’t stand a chance while others are born with a realistic chance of survival.  Each week (or day really) that the baby stays in its mother, the survival odds significantly improve.  

What constitutes “survival” is the tricky part of this dilemma.  A lot of these babies die in the first hours or days.  Some last a few weeks or months.  Even the babies that survive their initial hospital stay of a several months have a very high mortality rate during their first few years of life.  
The vast majority of extremely premature survivors have serious lifelong health and quality of life problems.  Cerebral Palsy, mental retardation, respiratory disease blindness, deafness, etc. are common if not likely.  Many extremely premature survivors will not be able to live independently as adults.
Kids who are fortunate enough to avoid the most significant disabilities can be expected to have a host of problems such as: lower IQ, ADD, mild hearing or vision problems, poor coordination, may need special education in school, etc.
The likelihood of an extremely premature baby acquiring any of these problems also relates to exactly how premature it was born.  A child born very early stands a very slight chance (at best) of going home healthy and “normal”.

So, If you have not yet figured out how this relates to euthanasia: in the US parents of 22 and 23 weekers are usually asked if they want their babies to be resuscitated or if the want to provide “Comfort Care”/”Hospice” to their babies.  Most US doctors recommend not resuscitating.  In Holland the national policy is to not resuscitate babies born before 25 weeks, regardless of the parents’ wishes.

If you have spent any time pondering the one in a million Terri Schiavo case, ponder this dilemma.  It occurs everywhere at a surprising frequency.  

eskimo

Offline Gunslinger

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10084
Euthanasia in the News: Parents Make the Decision Everyday.
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2005, 07:59:36 PM »
"Do not ressusitate" and "do not feed" are two very different things.

There are people in comas that dont need anything to keep them breathing.  However, like the rest of is they need to be fed nutrients and water.

I see your point but it's kinda like apples an oranges really.

Offline Raider179

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2036
Euthanasia in the News: Parents Make the Decision Everyday.
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2005, 08:13:38 PM »
I see no difference between them. IF you dont resuscitate someone then you are not doing ALL you can to preserve their life. Just as letting a machine feed someone is doing all you can to preserve it.

Offline TweetyBird

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1775
Euthanasia in the News: Parents Make the Decision Everyday.
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2005, 08:48:19 PM »
I guess we're gonna outlaw bottles for babies next.

Offline Raider179

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2036
Euthanasia in the News: Parents Make the Decision Everyday.
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2005, 08:56:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TweetyBird
I guess we're gonna outlaw bottles for babies next.


Yeah because people with DNR orders and those in a vegetative stay who wish for euthanasia are just like babies. right? Is that what you are saying?

Offline TweetyBird

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1775
Euthanasia in the News: Parents Make the Decision Everyday.
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2005, 09:00:28 PM »
DNR is not DNF (do not feed).

Offline Raider179

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2036
Euthanasia in the News: Parents Make the Decision Everyday.
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2005, 09:03:54 PM »
it is if the patient said if I get like that dont keep me alive.

Offline Gunslinger

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10084
Euthanasia in the News: Parents Make the Decision Everyday.
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2005, 09:08:58 PM »
Somone who doesnt need resusitation still needs to be fed.  If you don't feed somone they ARE going to die.  If somone has a DNR in their file they MIGHT die.

That is the difference.

Offline Raider179

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2036
Euthanasia in the News: Parents Make the Decision Everyday.
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2005, 09:25:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
Somone who doesnt need resusitation still needs to be fed.  If you don't feed somone they ARE going to die.  If somone has a DNR in their file they MIGHT die.

That is the difference.


ok

Offline RedTop

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5921
Original Member and Former C.O. 71 sqd. RAF Eagles

Offline CPorky

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 131
Euthanasia in the News: Parents Make the Decision Everyday.
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2005, 09:45:13 PM »
Like Eskimo said, this type of decision happens everyday. Fortunately, not all of these decisions are decided in the realm of public opinion... I'm willing to bet not a single one of you knew Terri, her husband, or any of her family (those for and against the 'pulling' of the gastric tube). I refuse to discuss this case, but only to discuss the ramifications of any decisions made that will affect the future.

What is next? "Patient #5125 isn't eating anymore, they will have to insert a feeding tube, no decisions belong to the patient or the family anymore."

This type of decision belongs with the family, associated MD involved with her care, and the State's Medical and Medical Review Board.

I'm digusted with the government regarding the Shiavo case, one party gets involved and is unwilling to allow the family to make the decision, and the other is too afraid to get involved and lose votes and doesn't show up at all to block the bill. Pathetic...

Offline Tumor

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4298
      • Wait For It
Euthanasia in the News: Parents Make the Decision Everyday.
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2005, 09:56:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by CPorky
Like Eskimo said, this type of decision happens everyday. Fortunately, not all of these decisions are decided in the realm of public opinion... I'm willing to bet not a single one of you knew Terri, her husband, or any of her family (those for and against the 'pulling' of the gastric tube). I refuse to discuss this case, but only to discuss the ramifications of any decisions made that will affect the future.

What is next? "Patient #5125 isn't eating anymore, they will have to insert a feeding tube, no decisions belong to the patient or the family anymore."

This type of decision belongs with the family, associated MD involved with her care, and the State's Medical and Medical Review Board.

I'm digusted with the government regarding the Shiavo case, one party gets involved and is unwilling to allow the family to make the decision, and the other is too afraid to get involved and lose votes and doesn't show up at all to block the bill. Pathetic...


So who is and is not family?  Husband?  Mom and Dad?  Brother?  Husbands "other" family?
"Dogfighting is useless"  :Erich Hartmann

Offline lasersailor184

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8938
Euthanasia in the News: Parents Make the Decision Everyday.
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2005, 10:02:03 PM »
Wow.  I leave for the weekend and everyone gets so wrong.



DNR is mainly for if something happens and you could legally be declared dead.  I.E. Your heart stops.  Someone with a DNR order is saying, "If my heart stops, DON'T START IT AGAIN!"



Terri Schiavo was not dead.  Nor was she going to die anytime soon.  But they decided to murder her via starvation.  It's not the same.  Don't try to make it out to be the same.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline eskimo2

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7207
      • hallbuzz.com
Euthanasia in the News: Parents Make the Decision Everyday.
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2005, 10:35:21 PM »
My daughter was born at 29 weeks and had a 98% chance of survival when she was born.  In spite of the fact that she was and is doing well and has a very good prognosis, she would not have survived without modern medicine.  Just 50 years ago it would have been extremely unlikely that she would have survived, even in the one of the best hospitals in the nation.  100 years ago, no way would she have survived.  NICUs have become very good at keeping very premature babies alive.  Nowadays, even most 25 weekers survive.  100 years ago it was impossible to keep them alive.  

Parents make the decision to have their extremely premature babies resuscitated, or not.  Although their survival odds and quality of life may be very limited, they have a lot more going for them then Terrie Schiavo.

eskimo

Offline Gunslinger

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10084
Euthanasia in the News: Parents Make the Decision Everyday.
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2005, 10:39:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by eskimo2
My daughter was born at 29 weeks and had a 98% chance of survival when she was born.  In spite of the fact that she was and is doing well and has a very good prognosis, she would not have survived without modern medicine.  Just 50 years ago it would have been extremely unlikely that she would have survived, even in the one of the best hospitals in the nation.  100 years ago, no way would she have survived.  NICUs have become very good at keeping very premature babies alive.  Nowadays, even most 25 weekers survive.  100 years ago it was impossible to keep them alive.  

Parents make the decision to have their extremely premature babies resuscitated, or not.  Although their survival odds and quality of life may be very limited, they have a lot more going for them then Terrie Schiavo.

eskimo


Eskimo I'm glad things worked out in your case.  But, IMHO I see s stark difference.  If your baby wasn't doing so well OR your baby didn't have a good chance of survival/leading a fulfilling life you wouldnt have the nurses stop feeding him/her would you?

PS this is coming from a father as well.