spitty question(s)....

[humble]

Been along time since I've done any serious phonebooth fighting. Even flying the Ki-61, -1 hog, F6 in the MA primarily I didnt realize just how far I'd migrated away from the edge of the envelope. Saw a large bunch in the DA when I logged in last night and jumped on in....had alot of fun but got seriously schooled by hemp and a few others....just amazed how hard it was for me to find the edge...let alone keep the thing near it:).....

Anyway, upped a couple different flavors of spit this AM. In 2nd sortie was in a IX (mainly since I only had the two hops and wanted DT for range). Got in a fight with a higher spitV that bounced me....was able to get the overshoot and ended up in a pure vertical looping fight. amazed that I slowly lost angles to the spit V...played with hvy throttle and barely getting over top to full out on wep.

Couple questions....what is "most efficient" way to play that vertical looping game. second is I'd guess that spitIX should win since its got more power....so in my mind I was just getting out flown...or am I wrong and spit V is better in that context??

[Murdr]

more power=more torque=less stability.  Its a small difference, but big enough that in my 38, I can loop indefinately with a spit9 and mantain position.  Aginst a spit5 I have 3-5 loops to gain position, after that if I dont have position, I probably wont get it.

[humble]

So the spit V will out perform the spit IX in a "loop contest"...?

[Murdr]

Given even E and pilot skill, it should hold the egde of stall slightly better, and eventually out turn it.  Or mabey better put, every time the spit9 has to ease off to avoid a departure, the spit5 gains.

[SuperDud]

I'd take my spit5 in a loop fight against a 9 anyday. To me, the stall of the spit5 is MUCH more controlable than the spit9. And as Murdr so nicely put it, spit5 will gain position while the spit9 is trying to recover. I know I only got 1 fight with you humble and you did very well. Stop by the DA more often and us "chest thumpers" will get ya back on track and pushin that envelope with ease once again

PS: humble have you ran into bovidae yet? If so, it's nothing you're doing wrong, he's just not human lol. CYA up:p

[humble]

I was amazed just how far off my feel got....I used to "duel" (using the term loosly:)) DMF (levi) Citabria (fester) Nash Nath Av8tr and a bunch of others in the TA all the time (back in 2001/2002. Certainly never claim I wupped up on em, but I think I at least provided some reasonable entertainment while learning a bunch I could pass on to the baby seals.

Trust me I'll be in the DA alot...going to spend next tour in the various spitties trying to regain a bit of feel for hard core T&B again....

I didnt feel like I was losing the plane at all in the above referenced encounter....just was suprised I was losing angles instead of gaining them. Obviously in a horizontal fight I'd expect that...but the vertical felt like the extra power would help not hurt....

[Blue Mako]

Originally posted by humble
Anyway, upped a couple different flavors of spit this AM. In 2nd sortie was in a IX (mainly since I only had the two hops and wanted DT for range). Got in a fight with a higher spitV that bounced me....was able to get the overshoot and ended up in a pure vertical looping fight. amazed that I slowly lost angles to the spit V...played with hvy throttle and barely getting over top to full out on wep.

Couple questions....what is "most efficient" way to play that vertical looping game. second is I'd guess that spitIX should win since its got more power....so in my mind I was just getting out flown...or am I wrong and spit V is better in that context??

I would suggest that the difference here is weight.  If you had taken off with a DT and hvy internal fuel and got bounced by a Spit V with lighter fuel load, he would probably have a substantial advantage, even in the vertical.  You may have more power, but he's got to be using a lot less g to make each loop if he's lighter...

[humble]

Good point....carrying 75% + DT...so was at 75% at start of fight....

[Grits]

With the change to 16+ boost on the Spit V it is not at a power disadvantage anymore. When it had 12+ boost the IX had an advantage in the verticle, but no more, and the IX is only 2-3 MPH faster on the deck now, where it was 20MPH faster.

The only advantages the IX has over the V now is hi alt performance, the .50 cal gun loadout and the ability to take DT's. Otherwise the V owns it IMO.

[DamnedRen]

Originally posted by humble
Good point....carrying 75% + DT...so was at 75% at start of fight....

I teach folks who want to fly a spit 9 to take 50% and DT. This provides the newer guys with approx a 1/4 tank to fight with (after they get there, drop the ext and engage) then turn for home on the last 1/4 tank. They also find that they are just about outa ammo at that point. 50% fuel is a very nice weight to get used to and fight with. The 9 is very easy and snappy to handle at that weight.

While I know you're no noob to flying I'm surprised that you really try and work a loop fight against the 5. Everytime you come over the top you provide the 5 the opportunity to cut inside your loop. Think of the Egg, sitting on its fat end, pointy end up. Your plane actually flies around the circumference of the egg as it sits there. As you power over the top he cuts power and flops over inside you. As you continue to nose down and fly down to the bottom of the loop (fat part of the egg) he cuts some power and again turns inside your bottom of the loop. He still carries enough power to continue back up with you because he never got his nose as buried as you did so he starts going up from a higher alt than you do. So for every loop you do he has two chances to turn inside you for a shot.  

My suggestion is you put your lift vector on his high 6 and pull to it. It's a very aggressive move but that's what dogfighting is all about  As long as you can place him ahead of your 3-9 line you will always be behind him and you can take the shots as they present themselves.

[DamnedRen]

Originally posted by Grits
With the change to 16+ boost on the Spit V it is not at a power disadvantage anymore. When it had 12+ boost the IX had an advantage in the verticle, but no more, and the IX is only 2-3 MPH faster on the deck now, where it was 20MPH faster.

The only advantages the IX has over the V now is hi alt performance, the .50 cal gun loadout and the ability to take DT's. Otherwise the V owns it IMO.

  Actually the 9 will flat out beat the 5 in the vertical if you set up the fight correctly. Once you do you own the fight and the 5.

[humble]

I almost never fly spitties so I'm really not all that good in em...I spend a lot of time just scrubbing E off the bird still even though I fly off the gas more then half of a fight. In this case ren the other spittie came in with 4-5k of alt and had control...I was able to force the overshoots pretty easily but it was easy to see he was E fighting me. After I forced the 3rd overshoot he converted to a looping fight (think he didnt think he could zoom again)...at that point I think he's toast. I expected to gain angles force him to evade by breaking off to a flat turn and then grab the perch from him...instead he ate my angles gain up to the point I had to break and scoot. He then got cherried and I never did find out who he was....

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Grits
The only advantages the IX has over the V now is hi alt performance, the .50 cal gun loadout and the ability to take DT's. Otherwise the V owns it IMO.

Hmmmm.

How would you know this, Grits?

- oldman

[Grits]

You told me so!

[humble]

Originally posted by Grits
With the change to 16+ boost on the Spit V it is not at a power disadvantage anymore. When it had 12+ boost the IX had an advantage in the verticle, but no more, and the IX is only 2-3 MPH faster on the deck now, where it was 20MPH faster.

The only advantages the IX has over the V now is hi alt performance, the .50 cal gun loadout and the ability to take DT's. Otherwise the V owns it IMO.

I had a spit V on my butt last night...was my 2nd or third time in the IX. I ignored him since he was about 2k out and finished up the business at hand...look back and he's 1.0.....800....600....levels out at 600 and I was able to create enough motion that he missed (if he was firing)...opened back up to 800 then 1.0 as the 9 started to top back out. Once I reversed he went all angles and it was pretty easy to swat him. The saving grace with the spit V drivers seems to be their total reliance on the plane to do the work (now oviously that doesnt include the heavy hitters).