Texas HS football coach shot

[oboe]

Originally posted by Skydancer
He was Lucky.

The argument still stands.

As for someone else in the crowd taking him out!!!!

Purlease. gunfight at the OK corral this is not!

Its an interesting point.  Real life aint like the movies.   Suppose you do have a concealed carry permit and happen to be at a spot where trouble occurs.    Odds are, it'll happen very quickly - you migh even be looking in a different direction, mind concerned with whatever matters brought you there that day.

You hear men arguing.  Suddenly, a loud "pop" or "crack".   Was that a gunshot you heard?   You wheel around, see a man lying on the ground in a pool of blood.   Do you see a crazy man standing over him in a trance waving an AK-47?    Probably not.  More likely, you see a couple people kneeling by the guy, and others laying on the ground on the bellies, hands over the heads. Women scream.  Others hurrying quickly away from the incident.   You unholster your gun but who do you shoot?

Worse, another pistol carrier is a half a second behind you in comprehending what's happened.   He sees you standing with your gun drawn, scanning the fleeing crowd.   Maybe he draws and plugs you, maybe not.

Plausible, realistic scenario?

[Toad]

Originally posted by oboe
Plausible, realistic scenario?

Here's a plausible realistic one for you; it happened in Tyler, Texas on 25 Feb.

The other victim, Mark Alan Wilson, 52, was credited by authorities with saving the life of David Hernandez Arroyo Jr., who was listed in fair condition at a hospital with leg wounds....

... "One of the deputies at the scene said if it hadn't been for Mr. Wilson," said Sheriff J.B. Smith, "the son would be dead."....

.....Wilson, a gun enthusiast who once owned a shooting range, intervened after Arroyo killed his ex-wife, witnesses said. Swindle, the police chief, said Wilson shot at Arroyo several times but his rounds weren't penetrating the armor. ...

Sadly, Wilson died trying to stop Hernandez, but he is credited with saving the kid's life.

Plausible and realistic enough for you?

[Stringer]

Originally posted by Skydancer
If the bloke hadn't got an AK47 in the first place he would have probably only been able to yell swear curse and then punch the hell out of the HS coach. All piss poor parental behaviour that I've witnessed at Football matches between youth groups that I run. But at least the HS coach would still have been alive eh?

Nuff said.

( Now cue the customary you're a studmuffin jibe from Jackal or Lazs;) )

Or as in the case in Reading, MA a few years back, the father could have just beat the Hockey coach to death with his bare hands by slamming his head repeatedly against the concrete floor, in front of the Coach's children and an arena full of parents and kids.

And the Hockey coach died, not from a gun, but from a parent's bare hands.

Nuff said.

[lazs2]

skyprancer.... it wasn't an AK47... and so far as the OK corral...  You do realize that 2/3 of all school shootings were stopped by an armed civilian?  

lazs

[SKJohn]

Originally posted by oboe
You guys are absolutely right - it says .45 caliber pistol.

But you know what?  Yesterday it said "AK-47 assault rifle".   I swear to God.

That is interesting - news sources can now update or 'change' their stories on the fly.    When I originally linked to the article, it said the story was only 2 hours old.

I don't see how anybody could mistake a .45 caliber pistol for an AK-47.    I understand he had a pickup full of weapons so maybe thats where the confusion arose.

I was watching it live on CNN as they found the kid in the woods and arrested him.  The announcers and the text under the screen kept refereing to the weapon as both an "assault rifle" and then an AK-47.
When I sat down to watch the 10:00 news , it had changed to a .45 calber pistol.
I guess the news media was just salivating at another chance to inform the general public of the dangers of "assault weapons."

As someone earlier posted, arming a few of the teachers would lead to a lot less of these "school shootings."
Why do these whack-jobs always choose "weapon-free" zones (ie, post-office, schools, etc.) to try and commit mass murder?  When was the last time you heard of someone trying to shoot a bunch of people at a police station or army base?
Just like the opinions in another thread, teachers that are willing to go thru qualification and training, and/or that have CCW permits, should be allowed to exercise their 2nd ammendmnet rights while at school.  To me, the signs that say "Wepon-free Zone" are the same as telling all the nut cases out there "TARGET RICH ENVIRONMENT  - and you won't get hurt!"

[Pooh21]

But didnt all this happen in a gun free school zone? How did the evil gun get into the gun free school zone. We obviously need more laws.

[oboe]

Originally posted by Toad
Here's a plausible realistic one for you; it happened in Tyler, Texas on 25 Feb.



Sadly, Wilson died trying to stop Hernandez, but he is credited with saving the kid's life.

Plausible and realistic enough for you?

Tragically, yes.    I hope more are like yours than mine, though I'm sorry the defender lost his life; its not clear whether the assailant did.

Your example points out another problem - this occured in Texas, where I assume CCW laws are well in place.   Thus, the perp had reason to believe he could be confronted in his crime by another gun owner.   So he took extra precautions and donned a bullet proof vest, apparently.   So now perhaps CCW permit holders should likewise wear bulletproof vests?

[storch]

Originally posted by oboe
Tragically, yes.    I hope more are like yours than mine, though I'm sorry the defender lost his life; its not clear whether the assailant did.

Your example points out another problem - this occured in Texas, where I assume CCW laws are well in place.   Thus, the perp had reason to believe he could be confronted in his crime by another gun owner.   So he took extra precautions and donned a bullet proof vest, apparently.   So now perhaps CCW permit holders should likewise wear bulletproof vests?

I can't speak for others but I practice double taps to head from 25 yards.  do they have head armor?

[Stringer]

Oboe,
What about the Hockey Coach?  What should he have worn to protect himself against his assailants bare hands?

[Toad]

I think the body armor will just cause a shift in training.

Instead of DT's to center of mass, the bar will be raised and it'll be DT's to the head.

Which, when you think about it, is probably all for the best.

[straffo]

Originally posted by lazs2
skyprancer.... it wasn't an AK47... and so far as the OK corral...  You do realize that 2/3 of all school shootings were stopped by an armed civilian?  

lazs

Personnaly I don't know.

In fact even if I can translate "school shootings" the concept implied by "school shootings" doesn't exist in France.

In fact the whole "XXXXXX shootings" simply don't exist.


I now we are decadent.

[Toad]

String, the only option is to ban hands, of course.

[Skydancer]

Toad Let me ask you this?

Is it that you simply can't bear to hear someone express a point of view other than the dominant one?

Or would you be happier if I simply agreed with everything that you and others say. Would it help to make you feel all wise and superior? I can oblidge if you like but I fear that it would be somewhat sycophantic and boreing.

Personaly to me it seems that your nation has a serious homicide problem. The figures speak for themselves. You have to be very obtuse and seriously misguided to not see the link between that and the total prevalence of gun culture, from ownership to the glamourisation in hollywood and so on. America is in love with guns and has one of the highest homicide rates in the developed world. Coincedence?

If you are happy with that fine. Personaly I think you are mad.

The fact that I live in a country with a relatively low murder rate, and there are few guns in the hands of citizens pleases me no end. Its very liberating not having to worry whether the bad guy is wielding an assault rifle or handgun. I'm happy with that.

Is that OK with you or would you like me to lie and agree with you Lazs and the others.

If you don't want to have an open mind fine. But don't expect me or others to shut up because it doesn't fit your view of things. What is the point of starting a thread if the thread starter is not expecting people to contribute? What is this a mutual appreciation society for people who all think the same or a bulletin board? Think about it?

[vorticon]

skydancer, picking up a gun will NOT give you a urge to shoot someone anymore than getting behind the wheel of a car will fill you with a urge to run someone over...

[oboe]

Actually I try to reasonable, see both sides of the argument, weigh opinion vs evidence, etc.   And I don't think banning guns is the answer.

I don't deny Skydancer's statistics, and agree America loves guns.  But I still don't mind any law-abiding, responsible citizen owning or carrying firearms.    

I think there problem lies in Americans themselves.   For example, look at Stringers post about the death of the hockey coach.  Beaten to death.  In frint of people.

What has made Americans so violent and homicidal?