Arizona Guard militia plans more aggressive border action

[weaselsan]

Originally posted by ASTAC
1)They aren't outlawed..but you find it acceptable that groups who openly admit they would like to exterminate certain races of people to be armed?

2) These so called "militias" are using a distorted view of the 2nd amendment..yes we can "bear arms" but it does not authorize citizens to form para-military groups...it was written in a time when we had virtually no army and enemies suurounding us on all sides...the "well organized militia part" really has no place these days unless we were under the threat of military invasion. not illegals crossing the border. As much as I dispise the fact they come here like that I don't think they should be shot..which from everything this group has said..sounds like their intention.

Groups like this only help to cause trouble for EVERYBODY..

If you think "militias" are their for your freedom and your protection..you are dead wrong..they are there for their own agendas and their "protection" and to make guys that are
otherwise pu$$ies feel strong..but hey..it is a free country (no thanks to people like them) and you can support em if you want.

Want to stop the evil Nazi Facist pigs? Tell your congressman that you have had it with lack of border security. Demand that anyone who employs undocumented aliens should face serious punitive fines. Use the military if neccesary. Then the Militias wouldn't be needed.

[Shamus]

Originally posted by weaselsan
Want to stop the evil Nazi Facist pigs? Tell your congressman that you have had it with lack of border security. Demand that anyone who employs undocumented aliens should face serious punitive fines. Use the military if neccesary. Then the Militias wouldn't be needed.

With the exception of using the military inside the borders I would say BRAVO.

shamus

[Dago]

Originally posted by ASTAC
1)They aren't outlawed..but you find it acceptable that groups who openly admit they would like to exterminate certain races of people to be armed?

You think because someone disagrees with your views they should not be allowed to be armed?  Because they might "like" to exterminate someone doesn't make them a criminal, and does not mean they do not still have rights.

2) These so called "militias" are using a distorted view of the 2nd amendment..yes we can "bear arms" but it does not authorize citizens to form para-military groups...it was written in a time when we had virtually no army and enemies suurounding us on all sides...the "well organized militia part" really has no place these days unless we were under the threat of military invasion. not illegals crossing the border. As much as I dispise the fact they come here like that I don't think they should be shot..which from everything this group has said..sounds like their intention.

[/b]

I think we had the US Marines already when the 2nd amendment was written.  If you pay any attention, you would realize the 2nd amendment was to protect us from the government itself, not outside threats.

Where do you feel forming a "para-military" group must be "authorized"?  Maybe forming a group like that would just fall under the heading  of "exercising freedom" when it breaks no law, commits no crime and in the reality of the real world as opposed to the "B" grade movies and bad television that warps your sense of reality, really has caused no  harm to anyone.

If you think "militias" are their for your freedom and your protection..you are dead wrong..they are there for their own agendas and their "protection" and to make guys that are otherwise pu$$ies feel strong..but hey..it is a free country (no thanks to people like them) and you can support em if you want. [/B]

It's a double edged sword this "freedom" thing.  They have the right to their own opinions and agendas.  Just because you feel morally superior for some unknown reason does not make them bad people.   This "no thanks to people like them" comment I find almost amusing in it's naivety, as I doubt you actually know if any of them have served in the military, and while I would be guessing, I would suspect you didnt.

Can  you name me 3 times in the last 25 years a militia has broken some laws or committed some acts against our nation?

I doubt it.  Where is the genocide you refer to?  Truthfully, the closest thing to genocide commited in this country was committed by our own government to the Native American tribes.

You are mostly just a product of the liberal bias in the media, disdain spilling out towards anyone unlike yourself in interest or beliefs.  The real tragedy is your failing to  understand the realities of a nation where people are differant and have differant concerns and priorities.

dago

[DREDIOCK]

My feeling is shoot on site anyone, Man, Woman, or child spotted sneaking across the boarders illegally.

I dont care who does it. Be it our own boarder patrol or some militia group so long as they do it. In short if it comes out as its certainly bound to do that some poor illegal was killed while trying to sneak across the boarder by a militia group, there wont be a whole lot of outrage, or tears shed, or sympathy for the illegal comming from me.


On the other hand I have no problem at all with anyone who comes across legally.

 You dont want to be shot at? Then dont sneak in.

  Same thing if you want to come in my house.
Knock on my door and ask to come in and I'm friendly enough that I might let you in.
   But if you sneak in my window in the middle of the night dont be surprised or upset when they carry you away in a body bag.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by ASTAC

2) These so called "militias" are using a distorted view of the 2nd amendment..yes we can "bear arms" but it does not authorize citizens to form para-military groups

Actualy the forming of paramilitary groups is a long tradition in this country. So I'd say yes it does.
Many of the units used in the civil war were privately formed.

As was I beleive Teddy Roosevelts Rough Riders.

As my father used to say.
"When the government cannot protect the people. The people must protect themselves"

I think the government,from the boarders down to the local police has proven beyond a reasonable doubt its inability and in some cases as in illegals crossing the boarders and unwillingness to protect the people against todays threats.
So we must protect outselves

[ASTAC]

It is obvious that this "debate" is pointless...I feel I am right with some of my feelings ..and I'm sure you guys are right with some of yours....but how dare you put in with the side of the liberals that are trying to destroy our country.

I do not take anything from the "mainstream media" at face value. To do that would be a very irresponsible way to forge opinions. I am a republican and conservative in most of my views. I still do not believe the 2nd amendment gives citizens the right to form armed groups. It is a very gray area and needs to be adressed.

In you guys definition of what a militia is for, any militia that perceives that the government is becoming opressive, can use that as a reason to start an insurgency against the government. That perception is the problem. I'm sure there are already groups that feel that way. Do you feel there is anything the govt is doing that justifies that sort of action? What happens when one of these groups decides to strike?

I am an advocate of gun ownership..I have quite a few myself. For HOME defense and for hunting and sport. I find no need to want to own guns that have no use for those means. IE automatic weapons and such.

[Dago]

The big problem astac is you are making too many assumptions.
You presuppose the intent or charter of any militia, and I think  you base that solely on distorted news reports.  If I am wrong, tell me this:

Where did  you get the information with which you are baseing your opinions about militias and their intent?

Have you personally belonged to any, or had personal contact with any militia members and discussed their plans?  

Its a huge stretch, huge, to assume that any and all militias exist to overthrow the government or cause anarchy.

dago